zz502 collapsed lifter?? - Page 5 - Chevelle Tech
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post #61 of 76 (permalink) Old Jun 24th, 19, 7:42 PM Thread Starter
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Frank
 
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Re: zz502 collapsed lifter??

So which of these would you get?


Comp cams
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...make/chevrolet

or

Howards
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...make/chevrolet


They both say gen VI but Comp cams lists 454 and Howards actually lists the 502. these are both drop inns correct? No changing push rods etc? Use with my dog bone set-up?

10 year Frame-off finally done...oh wait are they ever done??
ZZ502
Lunati cam, Pro-Sytems 1000HP carb
TKO600

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post #62 of 76 (permalink) Old Jun 24th, 19, 8:15 PM
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Re: zz502 collapsed lifter??

Frank, I know I sounded worse than was the case on the drained oil(but water is water).
Did you say the water/oily residue on the head and in the filter were Grey in color?
And the rest of the oil was normal in appearance?
I am just finding these water droplets/grey crud and vapor very odd considering there is lifter failure. Just my 2 cents.
If you had never mentioned the droplets/grey crud, I would have said defective lifters, but something generally causes these failures. Don't want to do this twice I'm sure?
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post #63 of 76 (permalink) Old Jun 24th, 19, 9:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmo55ss View Post
Frank, I know I sounded worse than was the case on the drained oil(but water is water).
Did you say the water/oily residue on the head and in the filter were Grey in color?
And the rest of the oil was normal in appearance?
I am just finding these water droplets/grey crud and vapor very odd considering there is lifter failure. Just my 2 cents.
If you had never mentioned the droplets/grey crud, I would have said defective lifters, but something generally causes these failures. Don't want to do this twice I'm sure?
So are you saying the water is what caused those lifters to fail regardless of how it got in there? Also the vapor is from the water also?

There was very little in the head when valve cover was pulled off. Like not even the size of a dime in the one corner. Looked greay pasty in color with like little droplets of water in it when i shined a flash light on it. But only size of dime. Like the spots on a cheetah. In the oil filter there was some more looking down into it. I mean it wasnt like it was filled to the brim w the stuff.

I was just wondering if thats what got into the lifter. If i understand u correctly this could have caused them to fail?

Just seems odd when it ran fine before winter.

Do you have any thoughts on thise lifters above?

10 year Frame-off finally done...oh wait are they ever done??
ZZ502
Lunati cam, Pro-Sytems 1000HP carb
TKO600

Link to some early restoration

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post #64 of 76 (permalink) Old Jun 24th, 19, 10:37 PM
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Re: zz502 collapsed lifter??

I don't have a preference on lifters. They could have just failed, but moisture in oil is milky in nature usually.
I suppose a lot of short driving without getting to temps could do this?
That's my concern, the cause of the failure.
If the oil looks normal with no milky appearance you could be fine. I would check the crankcase ventilation and try to keep short trips to a minimum.
And keep a close eye on the oil color.
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post #65 of 76 (permalink) Old Jun 24th, 19, 10:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmo55ss View Post
I don't have a preference on lifters. They could have just failed, but moisture in oil is milky in nature usually.
I suppose a lot of short driving without getting to temps could do this?
That's my concern, the cause of the failure.
If the oil looks normal with no milky appearance you could be fine. I would check the crankcase ventilation and try to keep short trips to a minimum.
And keep a close eye on the oil color.
Right milky. But my oil was normal color. Thats stuff was gray. As far as ventilation it should be fine. PVC on drivers side and a k &n breather on pass side.

10 year Frame-off finally done...oh wait are they ever done??
ZZ502
Lunati cam, Pro-Sytems 1000HP carb
TKO600

Link to some early restoration

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post #66 of 76 (permalink) Old Jun 24th, 19, 10:54 PM
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Re: zz502 collapsed lifter??

I read an article about a year ago from a lifter manufacturer(can't recall who) who was getting a high number of lifter returns. After careful inspection, they determined that most failures, whether roller or flat, surface or internal, were caused by poor or improper break-in resulting in failure.
Of course that doesn't mean all cases are the same and I'm not saying you did anything wrong.....just sayin 1 maybe, multiple??
I would replace them and move on if nothing shows up on inspection.
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post #67 of 76 (permalink) Old Jun 24th, 19, 11:14 PM
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Re: zz502 collapsed lifter??

Maybe you have a bit of aluminum showing up in the oil? Maybe not? I wish I could see it. Open it up and keep that gray in mind while inspecting everything up top. Good Luck!
.
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post #68 of 76 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 19, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: zz502 collapsed lifter??

Hey just some updates here. Been working alot lately so haven't been doing anything with it.

Soooo, I broke it down. Well....Mike (Slowmo55ss) You were correct. The intake manifold was leaking in the front drivers side. Very little....you could see the corrosion on the gasket. There was a little puddle directly under it in the galley. Which is the only reason I looked at the gasket. I also found the manifold bolts to not be as tight as they should be. My fault for never re-torquing those. So it prob started to finally leak a little towards end of last year. So good call. Just goes to show to inspect everything. It prob would have sealed up if i did tighten them up but it didnt matter anyway cause i needed to pull it.

As far as everything else....Zip , nadda, nothing! No wear, no shavings no anything. I messaged Chris Straub and Im in the process of measuring to see what push rod lengths i need. He said the OEM ones are a tad short for my set up. So Im going to do that tonight when i get home from work. Im also going to re-check my seat pressure. I was around 142# and he said that hes fine with that. Im not racing this. He said he has a set of Morels that hes going to hook me up with that are the same height as the OEM roller lifters. Just gotta get him push rod lengths and measure the wear thickness on top of the valves. Just eye balling it looks like its about a quarter width which Chris guessed it would be. (Damn that guy is good!) He said thats because the push rods were to short based off my cam specs.

I do have a question. I know Davey had me shim up the springs to prevent valve float. Looking at the tops of the valves I see a couple that have sometimes 2 wear markings. Not a star pattern. Just to be clear. The only time i heard any noise was when i was dialing this in. I had to readjust the lash twice. The first time al few were a little loose and the second to tight. I dialed it in the third time. Would this of caused the double wear marks on top of the valve? Or could it be from the lifters pumping down or collapsing?

Anyway just thought id update whats going on. Gonna finish all that up, get Chris the info, place order and hopefully driving soon! Ill keep ya posted.

10 year Frame-off finally done...oh wait are they ever done??
ZZ502
Lunati cam, Pro-Sytems 1000HP carb
TKO600

Link to some early restoration

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post #69 of 76 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 19, 1:19 AM
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Re: zz502 collapsed lifter??

Glad to see the progress, you are in good hands with Chris!
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post #70 of 76 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 19, 1:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: zz502 collapsed lifter??

Well spoke with Chris yesterday. Im pretty much just going to replace it all. I re-tested seat pressure and its all over the map from 113# up to 150#'s. So not sure what the heck happened but i know where i was when it was put together. Not sure if its possible for the shims to compress i dont know?? Or maybe i just screwed up. On a side not he said my Comp Cams Gold rockers were garbage and id never be able to get a good geometry angle when trying to measure for push rod lengths. I was stomped by this because after talking to several here including Davey i was told theyd be fine.

So what turned into just gettin lifters in push rods turned into Lifters, pushrods, rockers and timing chain. He said the OEM one is garbage and id be the first one of a thousand to not stretch. Well good to know...I wasnt counting on the extra spending but at least i know itll be right now and ill be done with it.


I got a question i hope you guys read this lol...i gotta pull the booster and M/C to get to last 3 valves on drivers side. So i was wondering should i change my 11" single to a dual 8" booster for the added room?? Has anyone had experience with these? Im reading alot online and get mixed results. Depends on vacuum i guess and i was pretty decent if i remember correctly. ive had zero problems with the 11" and what i got now....what do you guys think? Is it worth the swap?

10 year Frame-off finally done...oh wait are they ever done??
ZZ502
Lunati cam, Pro-Sytems 1000HP carb
TKO600

Link to some early restoration

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post #71 of 76 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 19, 3:05 PM
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Re: zz502 collapsed lifter??

Yes, but if you foresee using a cam that has less vacuum, you might consider hydra boost if you have power steering.

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post #72 of 76 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 19, 5:10 PM Thread Starter
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Re: zz502 collapsed lifter??

Quote:
Originally Posted by aukai View Post
Yes, but if you foresee using a cam that has less vacuum, you might consider hydra boost if you have power steering.
Thnx. Not switching cams. I had zero problems with vacuum.
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10 year Frame-off finally done...oh wait are they ever done??
ZZ502
Lunati cam, Pro-Sytems 1000HP carb
TKO600

Link to some early restoration

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post #73 of 76 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 19, 10:09 PM
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Steve
 
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Re: zz502 collapsed lifter??

Quote:
Originally Posted by nutt View Post
Well spoke with Chris yesterday. Im pretty much just going to replace it all. I re-tested seat pressure and its all over the map from 113# up to 150#'s. So not sure what the heck happened but i know where i was when it was put together. Not sure if its possible for the shims to compress i dont know?? Or maybe i just screwed up. On a side not he said my Comp Cams Gold rockers were garbage and id never be able to get a good geometry angle when trying to measure for push rod lengths. I was stomped by this because after talking to several here including Davey i was told theyd be fine.

So what turned into just gettin lifters in push rods turned into Lifters, pushrods, rockers and timing chain. He said the OEM one is garbage and id be the first one of a thousand to not stretch. Well good to know...I wasnt counting on the extra spending but at least i know itll be right now and ill be done with it.


I got a question i hope you guys read this lol...i gotta pull the booster and M/C to get to last 3 valves on drivers side. So i was wondering should i change my 11" single to a dual 8" booster for the added room?? Has anyone had experience with these? Im reading alot online and get mixed results. Depends on vacuum i guess and i was pretty decent if i remember correctly. ive had zero problems with the 11" and what i got now....what do you guys think? Is it worth the swap?
I've got a dual 9" booster and it works great, and I like the extra room above the valve cover.

1972 Chevelle, 454, 2004r, 3.08
1981 Camaro Z28, 355, TH350, 3.73
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post #74 of 76 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 19, 7:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: zz502 collapsed lifter??

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucifershammer View Post
I've got a dual 9" booster and it works great, and I like the extra room above the valve cover.

Which did you go with? Im looking at the Blacked out one from Pirate Jack;

https://piratejack.net/9-dual-power-...er-adjustable/

10 year Frame-off finally done...oh wait are they ever done??
ZZ502
Lunati cam, Pro-Sytems 1000HP carb
TKO600

Link to some early restoration

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post #75 of 76 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 19, 8:05 AM
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Re: zz502 collapsed lifter??

I'm using this one:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tff-2229nc

Here is a pic on my car:



Quote:
Originally Posted by nutt View Post
Which did you go with? Im looking at the Blacked out one from Pirate Jack;

https://piratejack.net/9-dual-power-...er-adjustable/

1972 Chevelle, 454, 2004r, 3.08
1981 Camaro Z28, 355, TH350, 3.73
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