K&N Electronic Carb Injection - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 153 (permalink) Old Feb 27th, 19, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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K&N Electronic Carb Injection

Hi,

So I had a buddy mention something about a new "electronic carb injection" system. I happened to get my Summit Racing catalog yesterday and saw it listed. Went out to K&N's site and sure enough they have it listed. Sounds interesting as it helps only during lean conditions, where an injector adds fuel based on the reading of the wide band O2 sensor. I guess you can program your target A/F ratio and it tries to keep it there. This is actually done with a 1" carb spacer that has an injector in it and it plumbs directly into the existing carb fuel line. No high pressure pumps or return lines. You are still running your existing carb but the one advantage I can see this could have over the EFI setups (FiTech, Sniper) is that if the system fails, you are then just back to running on the carb, just like before you added the system. You are not completely stranded by a failure. That seems like it could be huge advantage since these lower priced EFI's have been having problems of failures.

https://www.knfilters.com/eci

Anyone try this or have any thoughts? Sure it won't give you a true EFI experience but for basically adding $500 to an already well running vehicle, it could give some of the advantage of "automatic tuning" of the A/F ratio.

1972 El Camino SS (clone), 350/350 combo, UMI upper and lower A arms, UMI 1" dropped springs, Bilstien shocks, Dakota Digital VHX gauges, Rev 17"x8" wheels, Nitto 555 tires.
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post #2 of 153 (permalink) Old Feb 27th, 19, 1:12 PM
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Andrew
 
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Re: K&N Electronic Carb Injection

I don't get it...

Basically what they are saying is if you can't tune a carburetor, this will act as a crutch.

I'd rather spend the extra money and get real EFI with all the advantages, like idle control, etc...etc...etc...

Andrew

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post #3 of 153 (permalink) Old Feb 27th, 19, 1:51 PM
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Dave
 
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Re: K&N Electronic Carb Injection

I fail to see the use of something like this. $500?? A sniper is only $1000. The extra $500 sure gets you a ton more capability.

As for getting stranded, I have a phone and towing coverage. I'm not worried about it.

-Dave
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post #4 of 153 (permalink) Old Feb 27th, 19, 3:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: K&N Electronic Carb Injection

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevelleFan70 View Post
I fail to see the use of something like this. $500?? A sniper is only $1000. The extra $500 sure gets you a ton more capability.

As for getting stranded, I have a phone and towing coverage. I'm not worried about it.

-Dave
Sure I have a phone and towing coverage, which is great when I am local and have it towed to my home so I can wait for whatever company to send me a new part/unit but what happens when I am traveling out of town for a show (which I do) and the EFI unit fails? Trying to troubleshoot, contact the vendor, get parts shipped (when you can actually convince them the problem is theirs) to wherever the heck I am becomes much more of a bigger ordeal. Sure if I had a factory EFI car I could have it towed to a dealership for repairs but what happens when I am in the middle of nowhere and there is not a single person or shop that could help on my aftermarket EFI?

I have a new FiTech Street EFI (the 400HP version) sitting in a box for two years now (I actually got the very first one of this model) and can't bring myself to install it because of so many issues people have. I need an EFI that is at least as reliable as a factory GM system (which do fail as well but not nearly as common). I am definitely NOT a carb tuner. I can get it close enough to run but never have it close to dialed in. It seems this K&N unit helps with not getting the carb dialed in by itself and if you do have a failure, you just keep driving as it was before the unit.

1972 El Camino SS (clone), 350/350 combo, UMI upper and lower A arms, UMI 1" dropped springs, Bilstien shocks, Dakota Digital VHX gauges, Rev 17"x8" wheels, Nitto 555 tires.
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post #5 of 153 (permalink) Old Feb 27th, 19, 3:16 PM
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Tom
 
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Re: K&N Electronic Carb Injection

I can only see it being effective for cold engine operation without a choke. I didn't look too hard at it but if it doesn't have a TPS or MAP it will be reactive to AFR which means it's already behind on what's going on.
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post #6 of 153 (permalink) Old Feb 27th, 19, 3:38 PM
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Dave
 
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Re: K&N Electronic Carb Injection

I was 2.5 hours into a trip to Spring Carlisle a couple years ago when my engine spun a rod. I was on the PA Turnpike, but made it to the nearest exit. I called Hagerty and they sent a flatbed. Of course, my weekend trip to meet friends in Carlisle was ruined. It cost me $108 out of pocket since my tow back home was beyond the 150 mile coverage radius. (it was a 168 mile tow) Point being, stuff happens. If it happens far from home, it's going to be expensive. It's one of the risks of this hobby.

But back to the topic at hand, the K&N unit -- it just seems poorly conceived. This unit might have had some merit in the early 90s when aftermarket EFI didn't exist and/or was horribly expensive. Situation is totally different now.

But, hey, don't let me stop you from trying it. :-) I just think you'll find the results disappointing.

-Dave

'70 Chevelle ZZ383/700r4/3.55, [email protected] -- Megasquirt2-Extra, Holley Stealthram / Hotchkis A-arms / Hotchkis Springs / B-body 12" brakes / 1.25" F-body swaybar
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post #7 of 153 (permalink) Old Feb 27th, 19, 3:51 PM
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Dave
 
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Re: K&N Electronic Carb Injection

Also, that $500 for the K&N unit could be better spent (IMHO) on a dyno session to get your carb dialed in correctly with a better overall result than the K&N unit could hope to deliver.

-Dave
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post #8 of 153 (permalink) Old Feb 27th, 19, 4:06 PM
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Vince
 
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Re: K&N Electronic Carb Injection

On one hand, I kinda get it with this deal...set the carb up lean, and let the injection do its thing to richen the mixture to hit the target AFR. Sure beats drill bits and all the rest of the aggravation trying to dial in a carb. And, you tie into your existing carb's feed line - no high pressure fuel pump needed. So its a cost effective way for closed-loop control.

But - for another 500.00 as mentioned, how the hell can you give up the features of the Sniper?????? Not to mention that K&N system uses a 1" spacer I believe...good luck with that on a car with a factory hood. And back to the fuel pump thing...doesnt a factory fuel pump send air bubbles and gulps of air during low tank levels and sloshing around? What the hell is the injector going to do with that? At least a carbs bowl vents allow that to escape.
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post #9 of 153 (permalink) Old Feb 27th, 19, 4:26 PM
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Ed
 
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Re: K&N Electronic Carb Injection

Mr. Smoke, meet Mr. Mirror.
But I get it, I can see where it would be used. It seems like it is a $500 automatic choke replacement that won't flood your engine, and you need a low profile air filter for. For real EFI (FiTech, let's assume we agree it is real EFI) I am all in for about $1100 including tank, pump, lines, everything. I did it on the cheap, I admit. The only real advantage to this would be you need more fuel, and would rather spend a lot of money on hardware and tap into fuel, drill/weld/install O2 sensor, answer 5 simple questions...
Never mind, I don't get it at all.


Plus - no modifications to accelerator, assuming you have an adjustable shaft like the one in the video, and it can be extended.
I think if it is cheaper, say $300 or so, it will allow for some issues to auto adjust away, and still keep the look of your stock 4bbl under the hood.
It reminds me of when us Turbo Dodge guys would run Volvo cold start injectors as supplemental fuel when running high boost. But time has passed, those days are long gone.
It is a NOS kit, without NOS, with an O2.

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post #10 of 153 (permalink) Old Feb 27th, 19, 5:42 PM
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Re: K&N Electronic Carb Injection

Hmmm. 6-25 psi ? And people said the early TBI stuff that ran (and was regulated) in the teens was crap and barely useful. Remember a mechanical pump is fairly slowly pulsing not to mention the float may be opening and closing varying the pressure even more.

Seems like a learning nightmare even with todays powerful computers. The goal isn't to try and compensate after the fact its to learn so you get it right the first time and don't need to compensate for every condition. Like others have said with apparently no input or control over the rest of the system including fuel pressure I might add this thing is always going to be playing catch up.

Sorry no Chevelle, 73 Cadillac Eldorado - Fairly stock low comp 500cid.
FiTech Go4 600 - Timing control via gutted 7 pin large cap HEI - Fuel RobbMc Powersurge with returns.
Previous system was Megasquirt w/Holley TBI so I am not new to DIY EFI
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post #11 of 153 (permalink) Old Feb 27th, 19, 6:31 PM
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Re: K&N Electronic Carb Injection

I helped a friend replace a FAST unit with one of these and a 750 carb on his C3 Vette and he loves it. The FAST unit had hot start surging issues that the techs couldn't figure out and the carb/eci fixed all of that. It definitely makes more power and gets a little better mileage than the FAST system after leaning the jets. You can watch the eci % turn on and off while underway with the real time screen and it seems to react quickly.

There's a new youtube video by an engineer at k&n that talks about the features.
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post #12 of 153 (permalink) Old Mar 1st, 19, 8:49 AM
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Re: K&N Electronic Carb Injection

Pass.



I would either take my chance with a unit like a sniper that i've jad zero issues with, or just properly tune a carb and keep the $500 in my pocket.

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post #13 of 153 (permalink) Old Mar 1st, 19, 4:13 PM
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Re: K&N Electronic Carb Injection

Why do you assume the carb is improperly tuned? My hands-on experience with the unit shows otherwise. The carb on this car was well tuned and outperformed one of the best efi systems available. The eci made the carb run even smoother. Why all the negativity when you haven't even seen one of the units operate?
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post #14 of 153 (permalink) Old Mar 1st, 19, 5:12 PM
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Chris
 
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Re: K&N Electronic Carb Injection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calculated Risk View Post
Pass.



I would either take my chance with a unit like a sniper that i've jad zero issues with, or just properly tune a carb and keep the $500 in my pocket.
That's 0 issues on a forced induction application to boot!

73 nova,3515#(all steel)Pump gas!(91octane)406ci N/A, best 1/4,1.45 '60,[email protected],10.6 @ 122.38, short shifting,NO tuning!

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post #15 of 153 (permalink) Old Mar 1st, 19, 5:59 PM
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Re: K&N Electronic Carb Injection

If you can tune a carb, I fail to see the benefit. It takes patience, and often a lot more than just swapping jets (making IFRs, air bleeds, etc adjustable), but you can get a good fuel curve from a Qjet, 3310, etc.
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