Stange... Car stalls during left hand turns - Impala Tech
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-14-2016, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Location: Georgetown, TX
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Stange... Car stalls during left hand turns

Ok. This one is baffling.

1965 Impala
327
2 sp. PowerGlide

I've got about 3-400 miles on the rebuild.

When I make left hand turns, the car likes to stall/die. I pull over, start the car, and go on my merry way. Does not happen with right hand turns, or at any other time.

I've checked for pinched wires, or anything near the steering column, and haven't found a thing. I am unable to reproduce while it's standing still (in my garage), and it's not 100% reproducible on the road.. however it happened to me about 4 times the last time I drove it, so we're getting pretty close to 100%.

Before I start troubleshooting, I wanted to see if anyone else has run into a similar issue and how they resolved it. It's going to be a couple weeks before I can really get in there and troubleshoot, so I wanted to open it up to discussion first.


My steps are going to be:
1: Ignition - Run a wire from the coil to read voltage, so I can monitor if the ignition is getting cut when this happens. If not, I'll focus on fuel. If it is ignition, I'll have some fun in front of me.


2: Fuel:
A: Check fuel lines for kinks or issues that may happen during body/chassis flex to the left.
B: Carb - Check float level to make sure I'm not starving the carb during left hand turns(?)


That's all I got... any one else?

Thanks for any ideas.
-Chip
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-14-2016, 07:11 PM
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Sounds to me like a neutral safety switch being pulled or twisted by loose wiring as you turn the steering wheel. The Neutral safety switch can open the ignition lead and turn off the motor as well as the ignition switch does.

Big Dave
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-14-2016, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Good Call. Thanks Dave. I didn't even think about the neutral safety switch. I'll put that at the top of the list for ignition possibilities.

-Chip


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
Sounds to me like a neutral safety switch being pulled or twisted by loose wiring as you turn the steering wheel. The Neutral safety switch can open the ignition lead and turn off the motor as well as the ignition switch does.

Big Dave
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-16-2016, 11:58 AM
BA.
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I really got nothing new for you man. that is a tough one.

like you I wondered if a float could be low, stuck. whatever and I can't technically convince myself that this would happen.

so, I default like Dave and you to electrical. I also suspected the steering column wiring first. (from key, through column, through firewall to ignition)

I also would do what you are saying and maybe get some alligator clips on some test points and run them in the car to a multi-meter and then go try to reproduce the issue.

Aside from that, when you say you can't reproduce it in the garage,...does that include turning the wheel all the way to the left before or during the attempts?
When it dies on the road, have you turned the wheel to the left before attempting the restart?
I presume the battery is in place nice and tight, and the motor mount is not broken causing motor/wiring movement, which in turn futz's with the wiring? Seems to me that something is moving and touching another wire or body/metal, right?

HOW A NOVICE REBUILDS A 66 IMPALA CONVERTIBLE:
http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=1432
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-16-2016, 01:43 PM
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Electrical one.

Open circuits (broken wire or a switch turned to the NO or normally open position prevent current from flowing until such time as the voltage is sufficiently high enough to jump the air gap. Lightning is an example of a high voltage spark jumping an air gap.

A closed circuit means that electrons are free to flow anywhere in a circuit where the voltage is high enough to push the electrons through the wire. Because with a closed ignition switch power from the fuse box is allowed to flow through your points to ground, by way of the coil. This assumes the second switch in the circuit (in this case a neutral safety switch) is also closed and remains so regardless of which direction he wheels are pointed. If either the neutral safety switch or the ignition switch open up while the car is driving the motor will die as power to the distributor has been cut off.

Short Circuit. I we imagine that most car circuits are just a big loop of wire with things like light bulbs, horns, a stereo, or the car's ignition attached to that power supply, and then throw another wire across the first loop of wire we have in effect shortened the path to ground. We have created a shorter circuit, that is shorted further by just saying we have a short. A short can be an intentional thing such as a safety switch that cuts off the power to the fuel pump if your race car ever goes upside down. Or a very unintentional thing where a wire abrades against a rough edge on a hole so that the insulation is rubbed off. If that wire has power it will immediately jump to ground cutting off the supply of power to what ever is down stream of the short and possibly if not protected by a fuse burn your car to the ground.

For this reason all factory wiring is protected by fuses in the fuse box and by fusible links in the factory wiring. A fusible link is a short length of small gage nickel-chrome wire that will glow cherry red if current is forced through it (it is the same material used in your toaster). It will in effect very soon melt, creating an open circuit. It just takes a little bit longer in terms of time to do so compared to a fuse that is a lead tin wire that pops open almost instantly if the circuit shorts (exceeds the amperage capacity of the fuse).

I said down steam earlier. This is a useful metaphor for electricity. Voltage can be though of as pressure, such as the water pressure deep in the ocean that can crush a ship as easily as you can crush an egg. You can force water through a little hole to blast grease and grime or if the pressure is great enough cut through steel just like a plasma cutter. If the pressure is low you get a dribble, but even at low pressure the force applied can become excessive if you open up the tiny hole to the size of a small stream that can then wash a duce and a half army truck down stream with very little pressure applied per square inch. Pressure in electrical terms is voltage, and the resistance to the voltage is called Ohms that works like fluid friction does in sizing water pipes. What gets pushed are electrons; or a few bazillion of them, since they are sub-atomic in size, and even on the atomic size scale they are tiny compared to the Proton or Neutron which together with a matching number of Electrons makes up an atom that form the elements.

Big Dave
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-17-2016, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChip View Post
Good Call. Thanks Dave. I didn't even think about the neutral safety switch. I'll put that at the top of the list for ignition possibilities.

-Chip
The neutral safety switch only interrupts the circuit that goes from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid to engage the starter for cranking, it doesn't interrupt the power to the coil or any other electrical component. Once the car is running you could unplug the the neutral safety switch, do whatever you like with it, the engine will still have power the same as always.
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-17-2016, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth View Post
The neutral safety switch only interrupts the circuit that goes from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid to engage the starter for cranking, it doesn't interrupt the power to the coil or any other electrical component. Once the car is running you could unplug the the neutral safety switch, do whatever you like with it, the engine will still have power the same as always.

Well that blows that theory!

Thanks Darth I looked at the wiring schematic and some showed conjoined wires other didn't.

I never used a neutral safety switch on my cars as it was just dead weight. It required you to buy an additional bracket if you used a Hurst shifter and they didn't even make a bracket to work with the Mr. Gasket copy of the Hurst Ram Rod that Mr. Gasket sold as their Vertical Gate shifter (Sorry George! But, it was a good shifter and cost half of what the George Hurst's Ram Rod shifter cost).

I ripped out all of the stock wiring and used a Painless ten circuit fuse box and switches to wire up my cars as a SPST switch was lighter and cheaper than the factory ignition switch or the light switch. Those unmarked switches combined with the battery in the trunk, tended to slow down any one wanting to hot wire the car to steal it. Turn signals were the only part of the factory wiring that I retained (but only because I was lazy and didn't want to go to that much work for a few ounces of weight).

Big Dave
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-20-2016, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Sorry for the delay... for some reason, I'm not getting notifications when someone responds to thread I've created or am subscribed to...

Motor mounts are good. The negative cable on the battery was unusually tight. I've just replaced it (thinking the same thing).

Everything else is nice and tight.

When trying to reproduce, I've tried everything.. turning partway, turning fully, back and forth, using the blinker, not using the blinker, etc..

Now, all that said. Since I've gotten up under the dash and check all of the steering wheel connections, I have not been able to reproduce on the road. I put about 75 miles on it the other day, and no issue.

Now I'll wait and see if it comes back. If so, I'll rig my voltage test light to the ignition and go from there.

Always something to work on.. ;-)

-Chip



Quote:
Originally Posted by BA. View Post
I really got nothing new for you man. that is a tough one.

like you I wondered if a float could be low, stuck. whatever and I can't technically convince myself that this would happen.

so, I default like Dave and you to electrical. I also suspected the steering column wiring first. (from key, through column, through firewall to ignition)

I also would do what you are saying and maybe get some alligator clips on some test points and run them in the car to a multi-meter and then go try to reproduce the issue.

Aside from that, when you say you can't reproduce it in the garage,...does that include turning the wheel all the way to the left before or during the attempts?
When it dies on the road, have you turned the wheel to the left before attempting the restart?
I presume the battery is in place nice and tight, and the motor mount is not broken causing motor/wiring movement, which in turn futz's with the wiring? Seems to me that something is moving and touching another wire or body/metal, right?
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