Temperature Gauge (65 Impala SS) - Impala Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical problems

 
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-17-2013, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Post Temperature Gauge (65 Impala SS)

I got my fuel sending unit to work and the gauge now reads gas levels.
Now it's time to move onto the "Temperature Gauge", just as important.
I see there's a metal line connected to the Gauge itself, the other end was floating when I got the car, it has a threaded fitting to be installed somewhere, does anyone know where I am suppose to screw this fitting onto? (motor)?

Thanks.
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-17-2013, 06:49 PM
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Goes into the motor, but it is going to require another fitting that isn't a standard part. If you look at a bunch of SBC intake manifolds on e-Bay you will frequently see that needed fitting (female compression fitting). The bulb and the copper tube that is wrapped in a stainless steel wire to protect the capillary tube (which is very fragile) is filled with mercury.

I checked and you can find the missing part here:

http://www.vdo-gauges.com/accessorie...-8-18nptf.html

Big Dave

Last edited by Big Dave; 04-18-2013 at 09:50 AM. Reason: Spelling checker subed wrong word.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-18-2013, 09:36 AM
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A true '65 SS car would have had the temperature gauge in the LH pod next to the speedometer. It would have had a 16ga wire running out to the sender which was screwed into the intake manifold. It sounds like you have a mechanical aftermarket gauge mounted in a panel below the lower dash?

Mike

1965 Impala SS 396
1967 SS427
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-18-2013, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Big Dave...
Mike, my bad, the metal line is for the oil pressure reading, my whole car is very original, it only had two owners before me(one just had it parked), the pod I have is on the LH of the Speedo and is split into quadrants, Fuel, Oil Pressure, Temperature and Battery Voltage....on the RH side pod is the Vacuum reading.
Thank for the replies, this is my first restore job so I a little green to the details, learning, but I do know something about the combustion engine.
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-18-2013, 03:15 PM
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OK for an electrical gauge you have a sending unit that has either one central lug for a spade type connector (the most common), or two pins for a round female wire to slip on to the sending unit. In both cases voltage is fed to the sender which goes to ground depending upon the variable resistance of the thermistor material in the sender. The sender can be in the head (for 1968 or newer engines) or at the water outlet on the intake manifold depending upon how old your motor is.

Big Dave
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-19-2013, 09:33 AM
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Great! And just to be complete here, the oil pressure gauge IS mechanical. It connects from the back of the gauge to the engine block. On a big block car, that is down just above the filter. It's been so long for me, but it seems like a small block car has it on top?

Mike

1965 Impala SS 396
1967 SS427
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-19-2013, 10:55 AM
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You are correct. The hard lines had a three turn two and a half inch coil to avoid the copper fatiguing because nylon tubing hadn't been invented just yet.

Big Dave
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-19-2013, 02:58 PM
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Temp guage wires should conect to sending unit on driver side head between # 1 and # 3 cylender.
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-19-2013, 06:52 PM
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Larry do you know if it is a single stud (idiot light and some gauges) or the two wire sending unit used for the more accurate aftermarket gauges.

The two wire aftermarket sending unit I am talking about looks like this:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sm...FYHe4AodZTYA-w

A standard GM temp sending unit looks like this e-Bay post

http://www.ebay.com/itm/69-70-71-72-...ht_1749wt_1164

Though I have seen a few of these installed on a Chevy:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/64-69-GTO-LE...#ht_911wt_1164

Big Dave
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-19-2013, 09:44 PM
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The original temp sending unit for my 65 has 2 wires on it.One is for the green "Cold" light and the other is for the red "Hot" light.
It is installed in the drivers side head between 1 and 3 cylinders.It's a 3/4" npt male pipe thread.
I've a later 350 engine.With the 882 heads,I had to use a 1/2" close nipple with a reducer to get to 3/4" coupling so the sending unit would screw into it.
O"Reilleys can get the sending unit by order.
Mike.
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 12:15 AM Thread Starter
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update: I've installed this one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/64-69-GTO-LE...#ht_911wt_1164

the gauge on the dash did not respond to the car warming up, do I need to
track down the ground wire (where?) I just connected the green wire (spade) to it.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 07:35 AM
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Wrong sending unit. Needs to have 2 wire conecting post.
Check this one out from Napa .http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...625_0185968797
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 11:10 AM
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This is the correct sending unit for a true SS car with factory gauges. You can buy the same style at the corner auto parts store, but they are notoriously inaccurate. Even the current GM Delco unit doesn't read correctly. http://www.americanautowire.com/shop...ding-unit-5028

Mike

1965 Impala SS 396
1967 SS427
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 12:43 PM
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Maybe I am wrong. If it has idiot lights Hot & Cold it needs the 2 prong sender. If it has guage that reads H to C it needs the single prong sender. Need to know if it has light or guage or aftermarket.
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 01:05 PM
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I believe the SS got gauges standard, not lights.

Two doors, four doors, wagons, and ragtops.
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 11:45 PM Thread Starter
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I removed the existing one and it has a single prong with the gauges being all original, no lights, only the backing light for night time visibility for all gauges, the gauge has a
"H" and "C"... my car is a true SS vin 166xxxxxxx
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-22-2013, 12:30 AM
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To test your gauge, take the green wire for the sending unit and ground it with the key on. If the temp gauge goes to hot, all the wiring and the gauge are fine.

The correct sending unit for your car was originally a 1513321 from GM. If my memory is right, there is a changeup for that number and the new number would be 12334869. I can try to remember to check at work for you tomorrow to make sure that new number is correct..
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-22-2013, 11:42 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Darth and thanks to all, it's nice to know there are life lines out here...I will do as you said to test my gauge...
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-22-2013, 09:50 PM
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Shoot, I forgot to check that number at work today, but I am 99% sure on that changeup being correct if you need a sending unit.
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-22-2013, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
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Well it the gauge needle shoots straight to " H " when I turn the key. I read somewhere it is most likely a grounding issue, I need to mythological go thru each and every ground connection...
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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 10:45 PM
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Ok, I'm confused. When you turn the key and it goes to full hot, have you removed the green wire at the sending unit and grounded it? If so, that is how it should behave with the green wire grounded.

If the green wire is removed from the sending unit and is NOT touching any metal object (is not grounded), then the green wire is likely pinched somewhere between the sender and the gauge because it's acting exactly like it should if the wire is grounded.

Does that help?
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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 10:57 PM
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And you shouldn't need to be checking all kinds of other grounds elsewhere, which you suggested, if I understand right. I'm sure this temp gauge is like pretty much all other GM 60's temp gauges. It will have a pink wire to it from the ignition. That sends 12 volts to the gauge. The green wire from the gauge to the sending unit (sending unit is a resistor), provides a ground for the gauge. As the engine warms up, the resistance lessens and the ground improves. This makes the gauge move towards hot, a perfect ground makes it full hot.
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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-24-2013, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
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Post

Darth thanks for staying with me on this one, it is simple, the black-pink striped wire that carries the 12v is the one causing the gauge to go straight to "H" (hot), I have bypassed the green with a new wire directly to the sender and that has no ill effect on the setup, I have good continuity there, but this blak/pink stripe wire which carries the voltage makes it snap to "H" whether the green one is connected or not, so I have ordered a new AC Delco gauge (stand alone unit) new, to see if it's my gauge.

Thank again...I was told about these electrical systems, the one thing that gives my peace is that it doesn't seem like it's a gremlin in the whole system, I just have to use the process of elimination, if you have any other suggestion they are greatly appreciated.
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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-24-2013, 10:01 PM
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It sounds as if the gauge is somehow grounded to the case or something. So you mean if you unplug the green wire from the gauge, hook up the black/pink it goes max hot? If so, yes, the gauge must be grounded somehow when it shouldn't be.

Are you testing it mounted in the dash? If so, having it out of the assembly you should be able to find how it is insulated and where the problem is, hopefully.

I know how the 65 cluster looks from the front but I have never seen one from the back.
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-24-2013, 11:20 PM Thread Starter
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the wiring in the car is pretty roached out, today I removed all the wiring from a regular 4 door, I know I will have to do a little figuring for the dash harness the front/back/motor harness's are the same...really good deal and in real good condition...I'll see if that clears up some issues...
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