Troubles starting up when warm - Impala Tech
Troubleshooting Diagnosing problems

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 5 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Sneads Ferry, NC
Posts: 74
 
Troubles starting up when warm

Hi there.

I'll get right to it. When it's cold, the first crank sounds like its gonna die, but then it turns over like normal and starts right up. Maybe turns over 2-3 times before it fires up.

When its all warmed up... it does not want to start. I have to let it turn over for easily 10 seconds or more and it stammers and stumbles until it finally starts up. Then, it seems to run "fine" at that point. But man... why is it a PITA to start AFTER it's warmed up?

Thanks y'all.

Mark

65 SS 396

'65 Impala SS
'71 Super Beetle
2011 Dodge 2500 6.7L Cummins
2013 GMC Acadia
2014 Corvette Stingray
safetysoc is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 5 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 12:47 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,372
 
Could be a fuel issue; but my guess, since I am not there to diagnose it, is too much initial ignition timing. You can use an adjustable vacuum advance HEI distributor and change the weights and springs to have very little timing at start, crank up under high vacuum (idle) to your normal timing setting and then using weights and springs have full advance in by 2,800 RPM.

The HEI gets rid of dwell timing issues due to burnt points. That is why an HEI fires up first time, all the time, and you never have to adjust your dwell timing due to your point system burning up with use (do you even have a dwell meter?).

Big Dave
Big Dave is online now  
post #3 of 5 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Sneads Ferry, NC
Posts: 74
 
Thanks Dave.

I'm pretty sure I understood most of what you said.

I should have mentioned this previously. There is a Mallory HEI on there currently. It started up this morning (reluctantly). Installed a tach this afternoon, and went to start it up again and it just barely cranks over, and currently i can't get it to actually start. It cranks very slow. Again, as if it's got a low battery. It didn't always used to do this. Just recently. Battery is currently at 13Volts.

'65 Impala SS
'71 Super Beetle
2011 Dodge 2500 6.7L Cummins
2013 GMC Acadia
2014 Corvette Stingray
safetysoc is offline  
 
post #4 of 5 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 03:40 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,372
 
Battery has plenty of voltage, but it is cold cranking AMPerage the kicks it over (creates the torque). You can not measure that much amperage without a very expensive gauge.

The more timing you have the more the starter motor has to fight the engine as it cranks because you are firing cylinders before the piston gets to the top of the bore. So you are trying to pressurize an exploding cylinder. By retarding the starting timing (something I can do with my MSD 7AL-3 ignition box, but I'm not sure if you can) you prevent this wrestling match inside your motor. Retarding the timing on start and you can crank over a 15:1 fuel burning engine enough to crank it. Once it fires off it spins up enough to disable the start retard feature in the ignition box to return to your normal initial timing.

This start ignition retard feature in an ignition box allows you to overcome a heat soaked starter (caused by roasting the starter motor from near by header tubes that cause the parts inside to expand to the point of touching internally).

Big Dave
Big Dave is online now  
post #5 of 5 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Sneads Ferry, NC
Posts: 74
 
I seem to have potentially fixed this issue. I'll know more when i can run it for about 30 min and let it sit for about 10 and try to start it again. (Replicate the original problem). But here's what I did.

Troubleshooting. Jacked the car up, looked at the wiring at the starter. There was the WHITE wire... Wasn't sure where it went. Touched it... it sparked. Hmmmm.... Turns out when the previous owner relocated the battery, he ran a WHITE 10g wire from the starter to the horn relay bus bar. But the way he did this, was the ran a white wire CLEAR around the entire engine bay, around the drivers side, around the radiator and to the original red wire that used to run presumably from the battery. Anyway, that original red wire ran to the horn relay. SO.... why did it spark? Turns out the wire was WEDGED between the header (wrapped in heat wrap) and solenoid. The wire had been burnt pretty good, and looked corroded and was sparking/grounding out on the solenoid. Next.... the Exciter wire (purple ignition wire???) was also burnt to hell and previous owner put electrical tape over it. Tore the tape off... .the wire was shredded. I'm not even sure how it got voltage through the wire.

So..... replaced all these wires, wrapped wires in heat shielding, routed them further away from the headers and WHALA!... Started right up. Amazing.

Is this the solution???? like i said... find out when i can take it for a long spin.

But after reading your reply Dave... I also noticed the solenoid is VERY close if not almost touching the heat wrap around the header. Whomever replaced this header bought a high performance one. I think it was called a Proform???? I forget and I'm not in the mood to crawl back under the car. I took a shower and I'm drinking a rum and coke.

Regardless... I love this forum, you all are incredible. I'm hoping the wires were the problem.

MB

'65 Impala SS
'71 Super Beetle
2011 Dodge 2500 6.7L Cummins
2013 GMC Acadia
2014 Corvette Stingray
safetysoc is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Impala Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome