Snorkel type to open air cleaner - Impala Tech
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-23-2009, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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Snorkel type to open air cleaner

I am thinking of removing stock snorkel type air cleaner and replace it with open one. You know, cleaner and cooler look

Can I just remove all lines that go from butterfly valve in the snorkel to bottom of the air cleaner and then to base of carb? Can I then cover the outlet in the base of carb (vacuum?) with a cap? I know that cold days will bring longer warm-up times but I am not going to drive it that often in winter.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-23-2009, 12:24 PM
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sure. follow the lines to the source and cap them. replace air cleaner assy with an open element style and you're good to go

a 14" x 3" would be an efficient size to install
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-23-2009, 05:30 PM
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Actually it doesn't affect your warm up time so much as the level of hydrocarbons you emmit as it will run richer than expected. Yes the hot air pipe valve and everything can go. You will need an air filter that pushes into the oposite side PCV hole to filter fresh air.

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-23-2009, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
Actually it doesn't affect your warm up time so much as the level of hydrocarbons you emmit as it will run richer than expected.
Can this be adjusted at the carb?

I also learned that I will need adapter from 3" to 5 1/8" to fit the open air cleaner on my 2bbl carb. Thankfully, Summit has everything that I need in stock.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-23-2009, 09:24 PM
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All open air cleaners that I know of are for four barrel carbs so you will need an adapter to make it fit.

Big Dave
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 12:31 AM
 
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I'm actually sticking with a snorkel style air cleaner, but going to a dual snorkel unit. I've seen guys make some impressive power numbers still using a stock dual snorkel piece. The switch to open element is pretty easy like stated, you'll like the new look too
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 10:20 AM
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You can saw off the snorkel at the base to increase the area exposed to air. But I would be amazed to discover the snorkel inlet being a choke point as it has more surface area than the throats of the two barrel. A better solution is to run down to your big box home improvement center and get a drier hose made of aluminum. Stuff one end over the snorkel and attach the other end to a hole in your radiator core support. You can use a big hose clamp top hold the drier hose tight to keep from sucking in hot air (with a bunch of sheet metal screws to keep it from sliding off after you saw off all but an inch and a half of the snorkel to have a place to mount the hose).

Big Dave
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 10:22 AM
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I did the same. Still have to find an elbow to run the breather tube inside the housing. -There is a knock out in the bottom of the K&N base.

Dave wouldn't the engine run leaner since you're introducing more air flow?

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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 10:35 AM
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No it runs better (free horsepower increase) because the air is cooler or denser. The carb determines the fuel air mix. With a blow through carb set up (a hair drier force feeding air under pressure to the carb) it will meter the exact same ratio of gas to air even though you could theoretically nearly double the airflow. They do not use blow through carbs under very high pressure (above 20 gauge pounds of boost) because the carb bores become a restriction to the volume of air you can stuff in an engine.

Big Dave
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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I am looking at open air cleaner at Summit's website and I have a question. Do I need knockout for PCV in the air cleaner? My current system, has the PCV connected to the intake, not to the air cleaner. Air cleaner has only the crankcase breather line and lines going from butterfly valve to the bottom of air cleaner and then to the carb base.

Here is the air cleaner I am considering buying: link
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 12:42 PM
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You will need either a round push in air filter that goes into the 1.20" PCV grommet in the valve cover (as pictured on the right side of this 572 with a tri power intake manifold)



or the dropped Corvette air open element base that has a provision for obtaining air inside the filter element as seen in this photo (it is the small dome shaped screen to the left of the carb that connects to the valve cover with two rubber hoses an a metal tube).



Big Dave

By the way: a removal of the hot air tube only causes a richened condition temporarily until the motor warms up; as there isn't the hot air off the exhaust manifold (which heats up quickly) to help vaporize the cold fuel when you first start up the motor. These things were all patches added on at great expense to the end consumer to get the car to pass an emission test which is only performed at idle. Since we never drive at idle the whole point of the added equipment, and the test itself is pointless.

The same goes for the EGR valve and AIR pump systems which are all ways of either completing combustion or leaning out the mix to the point were the car motor is nearly dying at idle to pass a make believe test.

Big Dave
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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Dave, I know that I will have to get the round air filter that goes on top of valve cover. But that's to replace line that currently goes from side of the air cleaner (thru small filter) to the valve cover directly. There is no PCV valve there as far as I know. Now the PCV valve is connected thru the line to intake manifold so I can leave that untouched when I switch the air cleaner. So I am just confused about the PCV knockout on the air cleaner. It looks like I do not need it.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 01:28 PM
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Every engine made after 1966 has to have a PCV in the valve cover. In 1968 they changed the block casting to remove the old road draft tube that older cars had. The PCV is a one way valve (only allows vacuum not pressure from an explosion such as a back fire) connected by means of a rubber hose to your carb or manifold to get a strong vacuum. It evacuates all of the oil fumes from the motor and burns them to cut down on hydrocarbon emmisions. In order to bring the fumes out of the crank case it has to have fresh air entering the engine. There used to be an oil fill tube with a filter on the top of the tube; but that was replaced by another hose that goes from the opposite side valve cover of the PCV to the air cleaner housing. In side of the air cleaner housing there is a plastic fiber filter that keeps bugs and leaves from being sucked into your engine (lets in all the dirt and grit you can though, as the factory wants to sell you a new motor at about 100,000 miles).

When you go to an open element you loose the air cleaner housing filter and the hose and have to replace them with something else. I gave you the two options that I know of above with pictures of them in place.

Without a functional PCV you will have leaking gaskets and lots of blow by as the slightly lower air pressure in the crank case actually helps the rings to seal (a mechanical vacuum pump will make you 2-3% of your crankshaft horse power as a bolt on accessory because the rings seal better with a vacuum in the crank case).

Big Dave
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the explanation Dave. What you described is pretty much exact setup that I have on my 350. So I just have to find open air cleaner without the PCV knockout because PCV in my case is not connected to air cleaner in any way.

Thanks again.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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I just checked Summit's website again and they offer open air cleaner that has 3 1/16" base for my 2bbl Rochester carb. This way I will not need the adapter. Filter is smaller 10" (vs 14") so I will have to check if it is widely available. I guess I should be OK with 10" for my small carb.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 05:34 PM
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Dave you're trying to tell me more air into the engine makes it run richer? Just when you think you've heard everything...

And an open element air cleaner gives you cooler air coming into the engine? Just how does it do that? (I want to hear the facts behind this logic...)

Idle Emissions: The reason so much focus is placed on idle emissions is because the largest precent of hydro carbon emissions are dumped into the atmosphere at idle when cars are sitting in traffic. Almost every attempt at controlling emissions is focused on the idle circuit. For example, have you ever tried to rebuild a Gen II "open loop" computer controlled Qjet carb? (1984-ish) Ever see all the whacked gizmos they attempted to add to control the idle circuit before fuel injection and closed loop ECM systems? That was a time when government legislation and emission standards exceeded the current technology.
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
No it runs better (free horsepower increase) because the air is cooler or denser. The carb determines the fuel air mix.
Big Dave
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
By the way: a removal of the hot air tube only causes a richened condition temporarily until the motor warms up......
I gotta say, mentioning the "free horsepower" thing is a bit frivolous here.
By the same token, the air is only "cooler" during the short time until the engine would have come up to temperature. Not sure why to even mention that. The air temperature difference seen by a stock snorkel type and an open element type is pretty nominal aside from the warm-up period.


DRABINA: you're on the right track man. Going to an open element is fine for you, sounds like you're getting the right parts, and as long as you have BOTH a PVC valve somewhere AND a breather setup, you'll be FINE. As you've noticed, there are several ways to do both of those.
Personally, I always ran my PVC to a vacuum port on the base of the carb or the manifold and used a little pop-in $5 - $15 breather on the opposite valve cover. It'll all look cool when you're done man!! Don't forget to order a Yenko Air Cleaner sticker!!!!

HOW A NOVICE REBUILDS A 66 IMPALA CONVERTIBLE:
http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=1432

Last edited by BA.; 07-24-2009 at 07:31 PM.
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BA. View Post
Personally, I always ran my pVC to a vacuum port on the base of the carb or the manifold and used a little pop-in $5 - $15 breather on the opposite valve cover.
That's what I am going to have. I will try to take pictures of the engine compartment before and after as I went a little crazy and got some nice chrome parts like alternator bracket, wire looms, etc :-)
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968 Caprice 396 View Post
That was a time when government legislation and emission standards exceeded the current technology.
Oh god, please don't let Obama take us back to that!!

HOW A NOVICE REBUILDS A 66 IMPALA CONVERTIBLE:
http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=1432
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 07:55 PM
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Or you could save some cash and flip your air cleaner lid over so it's upsidedown. Old school gearhead trick!
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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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Or you could save some cash and flip your air cleaner lid over so it's upsidedown. Old school gearhead trick!
I know that trick but nothing beats shine of chrome when you open the hood
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