64 impala ss advice - Impala Tech
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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64 impala ss advice

Hey Guys
I need some advice. I just found a 64 SS with a 6 cylinder engine. It is pretty solid body wise except for two rust spots in the trunk on the vertical areas under the hinges. I heard this is a common area for rust on these cars. Interior is in very good shape. Rest of panels are very straight and rust free. Some of the trim is dented and needs to be replaced. car has 125,000 miles but engine runs fine. Trim tag vin starts with 41347 which as far as I can tell decodes to be a 8 cylinder engine. but when I put the vin in a decoder it stated 64 impala ss with 6 cylinder. Its a ps car but that seems to be the only option. powerglide transmission,tinted windshield and exterior chrome were the acc code numbers. I know its hard to put a value on a car without seeing it but what would a range be for something like this? Any help would be appreciated.
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-31-2014, 11:49 PM
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SS's with 6-Cylinders are pretty rare. Many won't like it that way, but others will. It sure would be cool to see an all original '64 SS with a 6, restored.

Bill
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
 
 
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Thanks for the reply Bill. I was shocked when I saw the 6 cylinder. I had no idea a SS could be ordered with a six. I would think most guys would pull the six and drop a eight in it. I would keep it original. Just don't know what to offer.
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 07:26 AM
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I was brought up around these cars and I have never seen a six but I do know they exist. It is rare but this rare I dont believe will raise the value of the car in fact to me it would lower the value. Other than that the car sounds like a pretty decent base to start with. I think if you get in around 5K you will be good. How much is he asking? I would tell him that 6 is going to affect the value.
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 08:11 AM Thread Starter
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txbobcat View Post
I was brought up around these cars and I have never seen a six but I do know they exist. It is rare but this rare I dont believe will raise the value of the car in fact to me it would lower the value. Other than that the car sounds like a pretty decent base to start with. I think if you get in around 5K you will be good. How much is he asking? I would tell him that 6 is going to affect the value.
Hi
Thanks for the reply. I have to make an offer but Im sure he wants quite a bit more than 5K. Im most concerned with the two rust spots in the trunk. Are there places known on these cars that are spots to look out for? Other than the two spots on the trunk and some surface rust on the inside trunk and hood lip the car seems remarkably solid. I included the two pictures of rust in the trunk. Also Vin tag on Drivers door jam decodes car as a six cylinder 1347 number and cowl tag has a 1437 number that decodes as a eight cylinder, is that correct?
Thanks
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 08:31 AM
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41737 or 41747 are both Sport coupes with a 6. 41837 or 41847 are both Sport coupes with a 8. The value of a 6 cyl SS is approximately 10% less than a comparable 8 cyl car.
So if its a 10,000 car with a 8 it would be worth 9,000 with a 6.
The approximate value of the car you describe is in the 10 - 12 thousand range. I would deduct for the 6 and rust.
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadstoy View Post
41737 or 41747 are both Sport coupes with a 6. 41837 or 41847 are both Sport coupes with a 8. The value of a 6 cyl SS is approximately 10% less than a comparable 8 cyl car.
So if its a 10,000 car with a 8 it would be worth 9,000 with a 6.
The approximate value of the car you describe is in the 10 - 12 thousand range. I would deduct for the 6 and rust.
Thanks, for the advice. Is the rust spots in the trunk area common and a easy fix? Also he said it has a hole in the filler neck. Is that a major concern?
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
 
 
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The door tag says 41347 and the cowl is 64-1447. here are some pictures. Does the engine have any partial vin or any way to determine if its original to the car?
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 08:58 AM
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The rust shown in the pictures is a lot less than I expected. That is really not that bad and you are correct, it is a "trouble spot" on the '61-'64 Full Size Chevys.

Values are pretty hard to estimate without actually being right there and checking the car over, but it would just be a pretty wild guess without a lot of pictures.

I also agree that the 6 is less in Value, but when compared to an original or an original type V-8. I would actually rather have the original 6, compared to a mid-80's 305 or something like it.

But it still has some Value because of the rarity of it, but again only if you keep it that way. If 2 SS's were at a show and were exactly alike except one was a 283 and the other a 6, I would say the larger crowd would be around the 6.

Bill
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 09:02 AM
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Rust in those spots is normal. If you do it your self it can be repaired rather cheaply. If you have a body shop repair it, count on at least 120.00 an hour + for about 8 hours.
If the filler neck if soldered to the tank will require removing the tank for repair. As I don't like to mess with fuel tanks I would buy a new repop tank. It could probably use one anyway. While the tanks out is a great time to repair the trunk rust.
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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 09:17 AM
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It is correct for 41347 is a 1964 6 cyl SS. My source http://www.drivinithome.com/chevy-fu...-vin-decoding/ The car was built in Tarrytown, NY. Is it blue with a blue int?
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
 
 
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Quote:
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It is correct for 41347 is a 1964 6 cyl SS. My source http://www.drivinithome.com/chevy-fu...-vin-decoding/ The car was built in Tarrytown, NY. Is it blue with a blue int?
Yes.Silver mist blue with blue bucket seat interior.
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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
 
 
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Does the engine have a partial vin like later chevys?
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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
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Does the engine have a partial vin like later chevys?
Not in 1964 unless it was a 409 or other high value engine (such as the 350 horsepower 327).

Big Dave
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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 02:15 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Ok. Thanks for the help. Anyone else want to chime in im all ears. I have to make a decision weather or not to pull the trigger and Im a bit nervous. Interior is in really good shape for its age. Im beginning to think that possibly it has been redone because it looks to good to me. Ill have to go back and really take a good look at this car. I did not have a lot of time to really inspect it well. One member said value between 10-12k if its a solid car so if that's the case I think i'll be alright.
Thanks again
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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Quote:
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Ok. Thanks for the help. Anyone else want to chime in im all ears. I have to make a decision weather or not to pull the trigger and Im a bit nervous. Interior is in really good shape for its age. Im beginning to think that possibly it has been redone because it looks to good to me. Ill have to go back and really take a good look at this car. I did not have a lot of time to really inspect it well. One member said value between 10-12k if its a solid car so if that's the case I think i'll be alright.
Thanks again
Read again deduct for 6 cylinder and rust
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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 04:29 PM
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You also don't have to start your negotiating at his asking price either. Might point out to the current owner that a six doesn't make it a rare car, only a car that is worth less.

Believe it or not it wasn't until the 283 came out that a SBC could beat a 235 six in a dirt track race as the 235 had a lot more hop up parts available to make power than the 265 SBC ever did. There is a reason sixes where installed in these full size cars and light trucks. They could out pull the higher reving small block making more bottom end torque with better fuel economy.

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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 09:14 PM
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Those rust spots in the trunk are the spot where one of the body/frame mounts are. They often filled with dirt and water, making rust mud (and rusting the bolt to the captured nut as well). They do sell repros of the mount on the body side, so you can weld a new one on in the worst case. I would expect that car to have the bolts frozen to the nuts and will break when you try to remove them.



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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 11:24 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Quote:
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You also don't have to start your negotiating at his asking price either. Might point out to the current owner that a six doesn't make it a rare car, only a car that is worth less.

Believe it or not it wasn't until the 283 came out that a SBC could beat a 235 six in a dirt track race as the 235 had a lot more hop up parts available to make power than the 265 SBC ever did. There is a reason sixes where installed in these full size cars and light trucks. They could out pull the higher reving small block making more bottom end torque with better fuel economy.

Big Dave
Interesting stuff. Thanks
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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 11:26 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Those rust spots in the trunk are the spot where one of the body/frame mounts are. They often filled with dirt and water, making rust mud (and rusting the bolt to the captured nut as well). They do sell repros of the mount on the body side, so you can weld a new one on in the worst case. I would expect that car to have the bolts frozen to the nuts and will break when you try to remove them.
Ok,Thanks. This is what I needed to know. Is this a expensive fix? I can't do bodywork so I would have to pay to have it fixed.
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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 07:38 AM
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You need to get a refrigerator magnet and go all over that car looking for rust. Just rub it across the lower body every inch of it. If the magnet will not stick you got bondo you got rust you got problems. Normal rust is around the fender wells usually behind the tires. With the car being in NY I would suspect rust. I would also want to put the car on a lift and check that frame out real good. My 5K estimate was low but without some good pics I would start low and move up as needed and warranted. Good luck
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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 08:42 AM
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Bob has good advise. Never rush into a vintage car purchase with little knowledge of the vehicle. Take the car to a place that has a lift and have a mechanic look at the underside. Then take it to a body shop,not a friend of a friend and get a estimate on body repairs.
Trying to get mechanical and body repairs done on a old car can be some of the most stressful and aggravating times in your life.
You may have found a real jewel or maybe someones bondo bucket they put together to turn a fast buck on a unsuspecting buyer. When it comes to old cars its buyer beware. There are no warranties and your stuck with what you bought.
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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 09:07 AM
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Body shops are fronts for the insurance companies. They are paid by the insurance companies and as such are insurance company employees that own their own tools. If they are going to work on your car it will be off the insurance companies pay clock so it will be after doing eight or more hours of sanding.

Also and this is the most important part they are used to doing collision repair not rust repair on cars where there is no sheet metal readily (cheaply) available, for an insurance company that wants to put as little labor into a repair as possible. If their isn't a new or cheaply obtainable piece of sheet metal to hang like sheet rock, they will slather on body filler rather than cut and remove a piece of bad metal.

The shop may not even have a MIG or TIG welder instead relying upon a 110V hand held spot welder to hang fenders. So they haven't the ability to weld in patch panels or fabricate a patch panel using a shrinker, English wheel, hand operated brake, or a seam roller. If they have the equipment the next question is who besides the owner knows how to use the metal working equipment.

I am not saying you have to go to a custom automotive fabricator to get your rust holes properly repaired, but you will have to find a shop with the time, equipment, and knowledge to properly repair your car at an economically justifiable price.

Restoring cars is a hobby usually performed by retired body men that used to know how and frequently used lead for filler material before plastic body filler was invented. If you can do the body work yourself you will save a fortune; that you can then spend on shop tools to repair your car, and your next project, and the car after that one.

Do not worry about the powertrain as that can be bought mail order for less money than the cost of the parts to build a motor or tranny (this I know first hand as I used to be an engine builder for race cars). They frequently come with a warranty that starts the day you buy it, not when the truck actually delivers your motor to your door(where you have to have a fork lift to remove it, or pay extra in shipping for a truck with a hydraulic lift tail gate). So there is no need to buy a shinny chromed motor for it to sit on an engine stand for years as you get your car ready for paint.

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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 10:31 AM
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Steve,

Don't let these guys deter you completely, the reward for seeing a build through is incredible. They are right though - look at the car as a whole and try to determined how much you are willing to invest to get it to the place you want. I jumped in to a build head first on a 64 SS about 3 years ago having never done a restore. Started on the body when I should have started on the mechanicals. Nonetheless it's coming out great, but expect to sink some funds into it. It's definitely a learn as you go hobby and you will make mistakes!

My body work and paint were around $5.5K in LA where labor for this kind of work is probably cheaper on average. That's with the normal quarter panel rust repair, inside stripped and painted, outside sanded and painted. I have a solid undercarriage so saved money there (that'll be saved for my frame off in twenty years lol). Mechanicals, misc. and interior another $7K (bulk in a new engine which was a choice not mandatory). I purchased the car for $7k. So at around $19k all in I'm still happy. But not done either.

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Also look for rust under the back seat if you have the opportunity. I had a couple of pinholes there and it might have been from road water - tires kicking up from underneath. My car spent most of its life in the Pacific Northwest.

Good luck on the purchase. From what you describe, around $8-10k sounds reasonable.

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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 12:38 PM
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Collector car market advises that you deduct 20% for a 6 cyl, 10% for 3 speed or 5% for 3 with overdrive, and 3% for manual steering.
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