non s/s impala - Impala Tech
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-29-2011, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
 
 
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Question non s/s impala

Hi everyone, does anybody have an idea of how many non S/S 1969 Impalas were made with a 427/390 and M21 4 speed. I've found one along side a side street and the seller says it is a #s matching car. I have yet to be confident about it being so. It has no S/S badging and has a full bench front seat. At this time I don't have a VIN or trim tag info.
Thanks, JD
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-29-2011, 01:38 PM
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Numbers matching neans that the last six numbers on the Engine Identification Pad will match the last six numbers of your VIN tag. Look on the transmission and stamped in the case above the rim of the pan should be those same six numbers again, and the VIN is also stamped twice on the frame of the car. To check it out just wipe the grease off the pad and write down the numbers to check against the VIN tag on the door post.

Big engine could be ordered in a big car and many where but few had a manual transmission.

Big Dave
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-30-2011, 02:32 AM
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Found this article on a 427 Kingswood wagon factory equipped with a L-72 425 horse 427 and a TH400. Runs low 12's.

http://www.1969chevy.com/Leadsled.htm

It states that of the 1,168,300 B-body cars built in 1969, there were only 546 427-425 horse motors installed.

Big Dave
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-30-2011, 06:38 AM
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hi bid dave is this with all impala the the last 6 number will match the vin cheers
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-30-2011, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacey View Post
hi bid dave is this with all impala the the last 6 number will match the vin cheers
Yes all 1969 cars manufactured in the United States have the partial VIN stamped on the major car components (frame, motor, transmission and body parts) as result of a federal law to stop chop shops from stealing cars and cutting them up to sell the parts. That same law makes it a federal felony to alter or to remove the VIN plate on a vehicle.

This was a copy of existing Canadian law that had been in effect since 1962. The Canadians made a requirement of the manufactures of cars in Canada to maintain permanent records of all of their cars made since 1962 so you can get a copy of your original documentation listing every part installed on the car made in Canada (even for cars like a Studebaker that is no longer in business).

The US neglected to copy that part of the law because GM and FORD whined about how expensive it would be; but promised to keep their records for seven years, which is how long they expected their cars to last. This is why it is impossible to prove a true SS car in the US; which has five times more SS cars on the road today than back when GM built them. But you won't find this "problem" of tribute cars in Canada where a simple document check by VIN will easily verify whether it is an over optioned rare SS or not.

Canadian cars all had their motors made out of high nickel content cast iron (something only found in truck blocks destined for severe service in the states). They also cast a thicker cylinder wall to protect the block from freezing; but these two features also makes them desirable to racers because they are stronger than US made blocks. So a few chop shop engines made it across the border (especially in the Mid west) to be found under the hoods of street racers that were not exactly legal to start with. A certain infamous New Jersey street racer always extolled the virtues of a Canadian block to build upon (or so he said in a number of interviews back in the sixties).

Big Dave
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-30-2011, 11:30 AM
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Vin

No way to guess about the model, once we have the VIN we can check not whether it's a true SS not and solve that issue. We would need the engine numbers and casting numbers to at least see if they match the year of the car
and also will be able to tell the cubic inches of the motor.

Paul

Paul

1966 Impala SS

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-30-2011, 02:31 PM
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"This is why it is impossible to prove a true SS car in the US; "

To clarify Daves statement. You need more information that just the VIN to prove an original Impala SUper Sport except for the 1964 through 1967 model years. In 1964-1967 the SS was its own model and is identified in the VIN. In all other years the SS was an option package.

64 Impala SS 327/300 survivor
67 Impala SS 327 triple black hardtop
67 Impala Bench Seat 4 speed
http://craigaacars.shutterfly.com/pictures
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-30-2011, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fossil_Fuel View Post
"This is why it is impossible to prove a true SS car in the US; "

To clarify Daves statement. You need more information that just the VIN to prove an original Impala SUper Sport except for the 1964 through 1967 model years. In 1964-1967 the SS was its own model and is identified in the VIN. In all other years the SS was an option package.
True enough: as I had forgotten that bit. I was mostly thinking about how it is with the BBC Camaro SS cars, Z/28's (with the equally rare big block option) and Novas that all get cloned more frequently than the Impala ever does.

I just love listing at car shows when I over hear a guy talking about how rare his 425 horse 427 Z/28 car is. Or that the SS option was offered on Chevelle 300's as well. I just nod my head in agreement and move on. At least with an LS-x motor swap into muscle cars no one I have heard yet has stated that it was rare engine option in their 1967 model car. (Let the car change hands a few times then it will be mentioned by some one I'm sure.

Big Dave
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-30-2011, 08:22 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
Yes all 1969 cars manufactured in the United States have the partial VIN stamped on the major car components (frame, motor, transmission and body parts) as result of a federal law to stop chop shops from stealing cars and cutting them up to sell the parts. That same law makes it a federal felony to alter or to remove the VIN plate on a vehicle.

This was a copy of existing Canadian law that had been in effect since 1962. The Canadians made a requirement of the manufactures of cars in Canada to maintain permanent records of all of their cars made since 1962 so you can get a copy of your original documentation listing every part installed on the car made in Canada (even for cars like a Studebaker that is no longer in business).

The US neglected to copy that part of the law because GM and FORD whined about how expensive it would be; but promised to keep their records for seven years, which is how long they expected their cars to last. This is why it is impossible to prove a true SS car in the US; which has five times more SS cars on the road today than back when GM built them. But you won't find this "problem" of tribute cars in Canada where a simple document check by VIN will easily verify whether it is an over optioned rare SS or not.

Canadian cars all had their motors made out of high nickel content cast iron (something only found in truck blocks destined for severe service in the states). They also cast a thicker cylinder wall to protect the block from freezing; but these two features also makes them desirable to racers because they are stronger than US made blocks. So a few chop shop engines made it across the border (especially in the Mid west) to be found under the hoods of street racers that were not exactly legal to start with. A certain infamous New Jersey street racer always extolled the virtues of a Canadian block to build upon (or so he said in a number of interviews back in the sixties).

Big Dave
Hi ya'll, this may sound like an ingrate, but, I don't want this car to be a S/S, just wanted to know from anybody if they had ever heard of a 427/M21 combo in an Impala, not a S/S Impala. I'm of the mind that if all is true like the seller says, this is a very rare auto. The #s are going to be available to me this week, I hope. Wouldn't it be a nice cruiser?
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-31-2011, 03:23 PM
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The only car you could buy a 427 in was the Corvette and the Impala so it isn't rare to have a 427 in an Impala. It is rare to have a 427 SS Impala as few were made. Like I said most Impalas had an automatic transmission, not a manual. And most Impala's shipped with a small block instead of the more expensive big block. So we can say that a big block manual car is unusual, but not exactly rare. Odds of you finding two at any given car show is low.

Big Dave
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-31-2011, 03:44 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Thank you, Big Dave, I'll get the #s soon and find out some stuff. Thanks again.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-03-2011, 07:35 AM Thread Starter
 
 
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Good day, the guy with the non S/S 427 Impala has changed his mind and taken the for sale sign off. Maybe he is a member of Team Impala and found out thru these few communications that his car is kind of rare and is now going to keep and restore, dang it. Probably didn't have the money anyways. Back to the search for a restorer.
Thanks for all the help, especially you, Big Dave.
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