283 help again 64 Impala - Impala Tech
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-30-2009, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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283 help again 64 Impala

I hope this is the correct area to ask these questions...if it is not, please forgive...Anyway, another 283 rebuild question and I would like a few opinions..The block is currently at my machine shop getting cleaned up and punched .040 over, they justed called to say it is done and suggested I have this little guy "balanced" prior to assembling the Pistons onto the Rods. They are quoting me $200.00 to perform this... Opinons..?

1) Is this step neccessary?

2) What risks do I have in not doing so, and how big is the risk if there is one?

I have no issue spending the $ if needed and to do it correctly, however, I not big on throwing change around if there is no need.

Thanks Guys....
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-30-2009, 06:07 PM
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IMO, since you do have 8 new pistons in there, that should be part of the job of re-assembly. It IS something that should be done. You were going to assemble this motor, right? (otherwise I'd be asking why they don't consider it part of the normal job)

If you do not do it, and there is a variance in weight between the pistons, your motor will be unbalanced, creating unnatural vibrations and harmonics....all leading to premature death.

Of course, the extent of all that is based solely upon how much imbalance there is. In my book, it's just something you do, like buying new gaskets.

HOW A NOVICE REBUILDS A 66 IMPALA CONVERTIBLE:
http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=1432
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-30-2009, 10:28 PM
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It can also rattle so baddly that it will knock your fillings out. Super Chevy had a motor balanced and then got the flexplate bolted on one bolt off (they didn't reinstal the index pin for the crank flange). It caused the bearings to fail in under eight seconds (at high RPM), destroying the crank and block.

Big Dave
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2009, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
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enough said....will be done..

Thank you again..
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2009, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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BA...if you are refering assembling the Pistons on to the Rods, yes they performing that step.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-03-2009, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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283 harmonic balancer

My machinist called yesterday and asked that I bring to him the Harmonic Balancer for my 1964 283ci because he is ready to balance the assembly as a whole. So I proceeded to take it to him....upon handing it over he got a real puzzled look on his face and proceeded to say that something is missing here...??

This piece does not look like any Harmonic balancer I have ever seen...it is nothing but a Hub that the lower pulley's bolt to.

Can anyone here tell me if the early model 283's (1964 to be exact) had a real Harmonic Balancer on the crank or just this hub..? The Engine was out of the Car when I purchased this 64, and I don't recall this hub having anything other than the pulley's bolted to it...?

Jeff....

Check out my blog..1964 restore...
http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=2304

1953 Chevrolet 3100 Pickup
261ci Stovebolt.

1966 Chevrolet El Camino
327ci Mouse.

1964 Chevrolet Impala
283ci little Mouse.

Next on the list....1962 Impala convertible..
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-03-2009, 06:57 PM
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Got any pics bro?

HOW A NOVICE REBUILDS A 66 IMPALA CONVERTIBLE:
http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=1432
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-03-2009, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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I already dropped it off at the shop so no picture...I have been searching web and I have found info that some early 283's did not have a damper..just a hub..? Stumped..

Check out my blog..1964 restore...
http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=2304

1953 Chevrolet 3100 Pickup
261ci Stovebolt.

1966 Chevrolet El Camino
327ci Mouse.

1964 Chevrolet Impala
283ci little Mouse.

Next on the list....1962 Impala convertible..
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-03-2009, 08:03 PM
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It would be wise to buy a new one anyway. They are prone to failure with age.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-03-2009, 08:30 PM
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You are correct the 283 with early piddle valve hydraulic tappets could not rev high enough to hurt itself so there was no harmonic balancer; just a cast iron hub to bolt the pulley to. Modern hydraulic tappets can go to 6000 RPM so you could probably use a balancer off another high performance 283 or a 327. (maybe an aftermarket ATI part number 917067 Street Damper that is six inches in diameter listing for $214 will meet your needs).

Big Dave
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-03-2009, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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I thank you Dave....I do appreciate it..

Check out my blog..1964 restore...
http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=2304

1953 Chevrolet 3100 Pickup
261ci Stovebolt.

1966 Chevrolet El Camino
327ci Mouse.

1964 Chevrolet Impala
283ci little Mouse.

Next on the list....1962 Impala convertible..
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-04-2009, 09:44 AM
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larger damper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
You are correct the 283 with early piddle valve hydraulic tappets could not rev high enough to hurt itself so there was no harmonic balancer; just a cast iron hub to bolt the pulley to. Modern hydraulic tappets can go to 6000 RPM so you could probably use a balancer off another high performance 283 or a 327. (maybe an aftermarket ATI part number 917067 Street Damper that is six inches in diameter listing for $214 will meet your needs).

Big Dave
just a lil input on this...one issue with the 283 thin damper is its essentialy pressed on/ malleted on the crank till it seats.....now ..the later model big dampers are bolted on cause the crank is tapped in the snout for a bolt.....i would check his crank and see if indeed its threaded..which i highly doubt.......if not i'd be very careful with this swap.....cause now he might be under the impression "well its balanced so i can rev the snot out of it"......end the big damper starts to walk off the snout...kaboom!...now you have a reason to put on that hood scoop!........just somethin to think about....cause that bigger damper is heavier, and now a large rotating mass thats not to secure with out bein bolted and lock tite'ed
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-04-2009, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
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Crank

Thanks...I did have the nose of the crank drilled and tapped when I had it ground so i should be good to go...

Jeff

Check out my blog..1964 restore...
http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=2304

1953 Chevrolet 3100 Pickup
261ci Stovebolt.

1966 Chevrolet El Camino
327ci Mouse.

1964 Chevrolet Impala
283ci little Mouse.

Next on the list....1962 Impala convertible..
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-04-2009, 10:45 AM
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good jeff!.....when i read your post i was concerned about that....now all you have to do is find/buy a timin tab for the larger diameter damper....and verrify tdc and you should be good to go!
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-26-2009, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
You are correct the 283 with early piddle valve hydraulic tappets could not rev high enough to hurt itself so there was no harmonic balancer; just a cast iron hub to bolt the pulley to. Modern hydraulic tappets can go to 6000 RPM so you could probably use a balancer off another high performance 283 or a 327. (maybe an aftermarket ATI part number 917067 Street Damper that is six inches in diameter listing for $214 will meet your needs).

Big Dave
CRAZY. I'm going out to look at my 283 right now. I guess I never really noticed it before. COUGH COUGH since i've been driving Fords hot rods for the last few years COUGH COUGH.

1966 Caprice project
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-15-2009, 12:05 PM
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I'm still wondering about a "machine shop" that's never seen a 283 (early 327) balancer.......... not to mention the fact that its not needed to balance the engine.

Dave Bradley
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-15-2009, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbradley View Post
I'm still wondering about a "machine shop" that's never seen a 283 (early 327) balancer.......... not to mention the fact that its not needed to balance the engine.
If it rotates it get balanced in my book. I even sent in my pressure plate in with the flywheel and a second pressure plate as a back-up to be checked to verify it balanced along with the damper.

Big Dave
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-21-2009, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
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Can not comment on the "machine shop" that has never seen this hub...shrugging my shoulder's. I can say the machining they did was right in tolerance...

Check out my blog..1964 restore...
http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=2304

1953 Chevrolet 3100 Pickup
261ci Stovebolt.

1966 Chevrolet El Camino
327ci Mouse.

1964 Chevrolet Impala
283ci little Mouse.

Next on the list....1962 Impala convertible..
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-21-2009, 05:08 PM
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Jeff,
In the first place, that steel hub is all that's there on your original motor. There is no harmonic balancer on that 283. The crank pulley bolts directly onto that hub. 2nd, your crankshaft is "internally" balanced, which means it does not need the hub or flexplate for balancing. 3rd, since you had the snout drilled and tapped for a bolt (which you may or may not ever use) you MUST now re-balance the crank. Remember, all you need to balance is the crank, rods and pistons (with rings to get the correct bobb weight). IF you want to balance anything else that rotates, balance those pieces separately, NOT attached to the crank.
Verne
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-21-2009, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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the crank has been balanced...

Assembly progress can be seen in my Blog...

Check out my blog..1964 restore...
http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=2304

1953 Chevrolet 3100 Pickup
261ci Stovebolt.

1966 Chevrolet El Camino
327ci Mouse.

1964 Chevrolet Impala
283ci little Mouse.

Next on the list....1962 Impala convertible..
Beetle is offline  
post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
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Heres that little bugger....and the finished product...

Now if she will only run and not leak..?
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Check out my blog..1964 restore...
http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=2304

1953 Chevrolet 3100 Pickup
261ci Stovebolt.

1966 Chevrolet El Camino
327ci Mouse.

1964 Chevrolet Impala
283ci little Mouse.

Next on the list....1962 Impala convertible..
Beetle is offline  
post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 01:29 PM
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that's 'perdy'!

What did you coat the exhaust manifolds with?


Kevin
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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Stainless filled Boiler paint....McMaster.com part no. 7721T37, been using it for years on all my toy's manifolds, works great. Ya paint it, then cure it at 400 degrees F for 30 min. Best I have found to date.

Check out my blog..1964 restore...
http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=2304

1953 Chevrolet 3100 Pickup
261ci Stovebolt.

1966 Chevrolet El Camino
327ci Mouse.

1964 Chevrolet Impala
283ci little Mouse.

Next on the list....1962 Impala convertible..
Beetle is offline  
post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 02:38 PM
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well Jeff, it really looks good. I think I'll give it a try.
I assume you blast the manifolds first for the best adhesion.

Kevin
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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
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Yes I blastem first....but I do not recommend curing them in Mama's oven.....and dont ask how I know this...

You can just fire up the engine for a short period and let the exhaust heat cure them, but dont over do it and let them get too hot untill they are cured.

Check out my blog..1964 restore...
http://www.impalas.net/forums/blog.php?u=2304

1953 Chevrolet 3100 Pickup
261ci Stovebolt.

1966 Chevrolet El Camino
327ci Mouse.

1964 Chevrolet Impala
283ci little Mouse.

Next on the list....1962 Impala convertible..
Beetle is offline  
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