LS3/700R4 in a 1964? - Impala Tech
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-15-2011, 09:25 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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LS3/700R4 in a 1964?

I just bought a LS3/700R4 and was wondering if anyone has tried to do the same? I have a lot of other upgrades to talk about as well if anyone wants to talk about it
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-15-2011, 09:30 PM
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Welcome to the Team Brian!

First it is easy to do and I have seen several examples at local car shows. the big B body has lots of room. Most use a Cadillac oil pan and Camaro accessory drives with a truck or Camaro intake as there is lots of room under the hood. There are even off the shelf headers avaialble for the car.

Next issue. Why a 700R4 when using a EFI motor? You need a newer stronger 4L65e transmission for the speed sensor and feed back to the "distributor" on load.

Big Dave
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-15-2011, 09:39 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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Big Dave thanks for the reply! Well I talked with a few guys that I know that work for GM and they all said that with 430HP the 4l65e wouldnt work unless you put more money into an already new tranny. Even the 4l70e is not rated for that HP. I bought a TCI tranny rated up to 475hp with the lockup. I dont know about the speed sensor or the distributor.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-15-2011, 09:51 PM
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700R4 is a weaker transmission than the 4L60 it changed into. Every year GM engineers tweaked the tranny with new parts that were stronger than the previous versions. The 4L65e was the strongest TH350 based tranny that GM made when last I looked. If you need more strength than that the easy fix is a 4L80e transmission The 4L80e will hold 1,200 horsepower if you build it with: Updated reverse band; molded steel direct clutch piston; 300M hardened input shaft; five-pinion rear planetary gearset; 44-element sprag (stock is 34 element); wide kickdown band with new apply piston (only three are aftermarket parts rest are normal build upgrade).

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-15-2011, 10:02 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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So if i have a 700R4 that is rated for 475HP then it is weaker than a 4l60e rated for under 430HP it is a weaker tranny? I looked at both the 4l70e and the 80 an both were over double the price. I have a budget to do the WHOLE car.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-15-2011, 11:17 PM
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I can say from personal experience that the 4l65e will hold up to a supercharged 6.0 liter for about 70k miles. I am guessing it makes around 470 HP, but I am sure it is the high torque at the low end that is hardest on it.



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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-16-2011, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwirolla64 View Post
So if i have a 700R4 that is rated for 475HP then it is weaker than a 4l60e rated for under 430HP it is a weaker tranny? I looked at both the 4l70e and the 80 an both were over double the price. I have a budget to do the WHOLE car.
If your 700R4 is rated for 475 horsepower it isn't a stock 700R4 but a custom made transmission with aftermarket parts (many of which are found stock in the 4L65e). It is the exact same transmission with the difference being the "e" which stands for computer controlled electronically shifted. The 700R4 received a name change to 4L60 back in the 90's it didn't change anything other than it's name a reflected the way that GM designated all of their transmissions with the 4 telling you it had four forward gears, the L telling you it was a longitudinal rear wheel drive (T stands for transverse front wheel drive) and the 60 telling you the amount of torque it could contain compared to the 80 (or about 75% without breaking). So right off the bat General motors is telling you that the 65 is a stronger tranny than the 60 was.

Big Dave
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-09-2011, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
 
 
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so further talking to TCI and a few other places everyone came to the conclussion that I have to get a 4L60E!!! They agreed that it was the wrong tranny to put in so now we are on the same page and hopefully moving in the right direction.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-19-2014, 06:07 PM
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwirolla64 View Post
so further talking to TCI and a few other places everyone came to the conclussion that I have to get a 4L60E!!! They agreed that it was the wrong tranny to put in so now we are on the same page and hopefully moving in the right direction.
How is this project progressing? I am also considering the LS swap and would be very interested in your progress.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-26-2015, 12:29 PM
 
 
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I just want to see the ls3 in there

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-26-2015, 10:27 PM
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I am in the process of putting an LS 5.3 4L60E in my 60. I have done some research and the Cadillac oil pan will work but hangs below the cross member. Go do a search on LS1tech.com. The only LS oil pan that does not hang below the cross member is the 98-02 Camaro Firebird LS-1 oil pan. This oil pan requires the cross member to be notched. I pretty sure the Caddy oil pan requires the cross member to be notched as well but I was afraid to use an oil pan that hangs down that low. I hopes this helps. My car is not finished yet but I have learned alot in the last few months.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-27-2015, 08:41 AM
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Holley sells an LS-x mounting kit that includes a custom oil pan and a pick-up that fits all Chevy car bodies except the early Chevy II (which like a Mustang has a front oil sump). The kit includes adapter motor mounts, transmission adapter, headers, and the above mentioned oil pan.

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-27-2015, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
Holley sells an LS-x mounting kit that includes a custom oil pan and a pick-up that fits all Chevy car bodies except the early Chevy II (which like a Mustang has a front oil sump). The kit includes adapter motor mounts, transmission adapter, headers, and the above mentioned oil pan.

Big Dave
The Holley pan may work, I have not seen or read were anyone used it in an x-frame. The GM performance pan hangs too low, it is reasonably priced at around $150 but I had friend use one on his 62 and it hung down at least 2". The Holley pan is over $300 without the mounts headers and etc.. You can buy the F-body pan new for less. There are also plenty of used F body pans out there. I bought one on eBay for under $200.

2010 up Camaro exhaust manifolds will work with a little grinding on the flange. There are plenty of exhaust manifolds out there were guys have put headers on their cars. I have also read they flow almost as good as headers.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-28-2015, 07:29 AM
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Check out this site. They claim this is specifically for the X frame...

It ain't cheap, but then you knew that going in...

http://www.brphotrods.com/products/5...cts/index.html




'62 Impala SS 409 TH350
'66 Chevelle SS 496 M20
'70 Chevelle SS 396 M20
'67 Camaro ss/rs 350 PG
'38 Chev coupe street rod
'54 Chev 210 2 door
'69 Chev C10
'89 Chev R3500 roll back
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-28-2015, 08:55 AM
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HERES A QUICK RUN DOWN OF WHAT I'VE BEEN KEEPING TRACK OF THAT I USED ON MY CONVERSION. KEEO IN MIND I BOUGHT THE MSD FUEL PUMP KIT BEFORE I BOUGHT THE EFI TANK. SO YOU CAN GO EITHER ROUTE. BUT IF YOU BUY THE EFI TANK, ALL YOU NEED IS THE CORVETTE FILTER/REGULATOR. I HAVE AN EXTERNAL WALBORO FUEL PUMP FOR THIS SWAP IF ANYONE WANTS IT. $100 SHIPPED. THERES ALSO OTHER BRACKET OPTIONS IF YOU HAVE THE ACCESSORIES ALREADY. I DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING. SO THERES OPTIONS TO SAVE SOME $$$ IF YOU HAVE THE ACCY'S ALREADY


PART DESCRIPTION COST RESOURCE TRANSMISSION 4L65E $500.00 SOME GUY IN MD MOTOR 5.3 LM7 $800.00 MAC MOTOR MOUNT ADAPTER LS MOUNTS $100.00 SPEEDWAY MOTORS MOTOR MOUNTS ENERGY $80.00 ADVANCED AUTO INTAKE LS1 CAMARO $40.00 VINCE MCALLISTER ENGINE PAINT SPRAY MAX PAINT $50.00 STAPLES AUTOMOTIVE TRANNY X MEMBER 4L65E S&P $160.00 http://WWW.HOTRODLANE.CC OIL PAN KIT CAMARO $270.00 WWW.SUPERCHEVYPERFORMANCE.COM ECU ECU $200.00 WWW.PSICONVERSION.COM WIRE HARNESS WIRE HARNESS $500.00 WWW.PSICONVERSION.COM HOLLEY ACC BRACKETS HOLLEY 20-132 WITH SPACERS 21-3 $350.00 JEGS STARTER TOUGH ONE $200.00 ADVANCED AUTO EFI TANK TANK $480.00 TANKS INC MISC AN6 FITTINGS HOSES $400.00 AED TRANNY COOLER $60.00 PERFORMANCE DYNAMICS FUEL PUMP/REGULATOR MSD PUMP AND REGULATOR W/ FITTINGS $180.00 SPEEDWAY MOTORS ACCESSORY DRIVE ALT/PS PUMP, ETC $800.00 WWW.SUPERCHEVYPERFORMANCE.COM HEADERS $500.00 BRP HOTRODS WATER PUMP CAMARO $120.00 ADVANCED AUTO FUEL RAIL $150.00 EBAY 500 STEERING BOX $380.00 CPP RADIATOR $300.00 EBAY VINTAGE AC AC KIT 1250 VINTAGE AC TOTAL $7,870.00
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-28-2015, 09:42 AM
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Tanks Inc with internal fuel pump is the only way to go. I've changed out several for people who started with an external pump and stock tank and the pumps overheat and quit or wear out prematurely as they aren't really intended for long duration use.

And yes, the corvette regulator with return line can eliminate the need to install a return from the engine on most applications. I have read where some of the more recent engines still require the return line to operate properly.

'62 Impala SS 409 TH350
'66 Chevelle SS 496 M20
'70 Chevelle SS 396 M20
'67 Camaro ss/rs 350 PG
'38 Chev coupe street rod
'54 Chev 210 2 door
'69 Chev C10
'89 Chev R3500 roll back
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-28-2015, 10:29 AM
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I have run an Aeromotive A1000 in continuous use for seven years without a failure. I used the return line 13204 pressure regulator with my Holley Dominator carburetor, but the same pump puts out 80 psi that is regulated to the 48 psi or higher you need to atomize fuel in an EFI system with regulator number 13101. It can be run in a custom built tank (submersible) but I ran mine externally under the car as recommended. If you mounted it in the trunk I can see where it might over heat.

http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-pa...000-fuel-pump/

Big Dave
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 01:11 PM
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djss View Post
The Holley pan may work, I have not seen or read were anyone used it in an x-frame. The GM performance pan hangs too low, it is reasonably priced at around $150 but I had friend use one on his 62 and it hung down at least 2". The Holley pan is over $300 without the mounts headers and etc.. You can buy the F-body pan new for less. There are also plenty of used F body pans out there. I bought one on eBay for under $200.

2010 up Camaro exhaust manifolds will work with a little grinding on the flange. There are plenty of exhaust manifolds out there were guys have put headers on their cars. I have also read they flow almost as good as headers.
Hi new here and have a question on the above. If you use adjustable mounts will you still have to notch the crossmember for the f-body or cts-v pan? also if 2010 camaro headers fit does that mean 2010 aftermarket headers will fit too?
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 03:19 PM
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Welcome to the Team Jerald!

The F-body pan oil pan will not fit a lot of older cars. The Hummer with the LS engine has the best fit pan from reading other's posts. Unlike previous engines the LS has a different oil pan, front accessory drive and intake manifold that is body specific. There are pans for the Cadillac, Corvette, Hummer, Camaro and pick-up trucks. All are different as sump location and configuration.

Here is the Camaro pan:



The Cadillac oil pan:



The Corvette oil pan:



The pick-up pan:



The Holley cast aluminum oil pan:



and an aftermarket fabricated steel oil pan:



F-body pan versus the "Muscle Car Pan" from GMP:



Big Dave
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-07-2015, 06:46 AM
 
 
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Im doing this same swap but with a700r4
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