Big Block Crate Motor - Impala Tech
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-26-2012, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
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Big Block Crate Motor

Jeg's is showing a GM Performance 427/480HP crate motor (GM # 809-19166393) which looks like a possible fit for my 65 Impala. There is also an add-on serpentine conversion pulley kit which can be ordered separately.

Does anyone here know - will this be a direct bolt-in to the Muncie M20? It looks like there will be plenty of room in the engine compartment, though I imagine I'll need a more substantial radiator. Probably different motor mounts too.

Thinking about a potential future performance upgrade from the 327/300 in there now.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-26-2012, 10:00 PM
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Big block bolts right in. You will need a bigger bell housing, clutch, and fly wheel, and a new starter (the SBC uses a 153 tooth 10-1/2 inch clutch and a BBC uses a 168 tooth Flywheel and an 11 inch clutch). As mentioned bigger radiator is required. Only thing wrong with a big block is the bigger they are the more power they make. A 502 looks just like a 427 but it makes gobs more power than the smaller motor. If your buying a GMPP crate motor they are about the same price.

Big Dave
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-27-2012, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Big Dave. That 502 sounds pretty good.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-28-2012, 08:47 PM
 
 
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Bruce,

I'm so new here on Team Impala the cyber ink is not even fresh on my registration.

Saw your post re Crate engine. Do yourself a HUGE FAVOR. Contact my pal Mark Jones in Colorado Springs. He will build you a crate engine for your application, not just a one-fits-all like a GMPP engine. Mild to wild. Mark has a great reputation on Team Chevelle. You will get a ton more power for your buck with Mark vs a GMPP engine.
719-650-1609, tell him George referred you.

here is a sample
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375538
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-29-2012, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
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Wow, thanks George. When it comes time, I'll give him a call.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-29-2012, 06:03 PM
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There is a guy who has shop down the street from you in Buford, GA (outside of Sugar Hill) that builds engines as well. People call him the Professor, but you can call him Mr.Johnson. Might save some money on shipping.

The advantage of a GMPP motor is the one year (from date of purchase, not from when you actually crank it up; so buy it last of all the parts you buy) warranty, that allows you to pull your car into any GM dealership in the the country and they will make it right or give you a brand new one.

I used to build some mean engines and I can tell you that an engine builders warranty is an insurance policy that says if you break it you fix it out of your pocket. You then file an insurance claim to get hopefully back the amount of money on the policy (but don't bet the farm you will get anything).

Big Dave
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-29-2012, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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Yes I know Buford/Sugar Hill area pretty well. Can you give me the info on Mr. Johnson (maybe via PM if you don't want to broadcast it). Thanks!
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-29-2012, 09:41 PM
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Actually Warren is harder to find than I thought he would be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Johnson

He does build and sell (or lease) engines (all big blocks based on the Pontiac DRCE3 block and heads) as he is the principle research engineer for General Motors Research and development Engine division (when he isn't off on an eighteen week vacation drag racing). But nothing I can find shows availability or price (though I imagine his are as competitive in price as Pat Mussi's or William Bryan Jenkins or a motor from Kagnazi or Jon Kasse).

Did find these two used motors:

http://lite.racingjunk.com/Engines-C...K-ENGINES.html

http://www.racingjunk.com/Drag-Racin...NE-1300HP.html

Big Dave
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-29-2012, 10:06 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info.

[eta: 1300HP may be a little strong for my 60-year-old reflexes]

Last edited by bajones238; 02-29-2012 at 10:07 PM. Reason: Did additional research on topic
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 08:20 PM
 
 
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What does Warren Johnson know anyway?


If you get $1000 removed from a GM engine, you see what the prices should be.
Some WAYYYYY overpriced. Their 427 re-do jobs for example. Cool things for guys with way more money than brains to buy.

A Pat Musi build is probably a bit over the top too. On a positive note, some Rect Port heads I owned when I was 18-19 are now on a Vette that he owns
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kettbo View Post
What does Warren Johnson know anyway?

A Pat Musi build is probably a bit over the top too. On a positive note, some Rect Port heads I owned when I was 18-19 are now on a Vette that he owns
Oh come on who wouldn't want an 805 cubic inch engine where the block is caved out of a five by four by four foot cube of solid aluminum, with a matching set of billet heads, billet extra long cam and billet extra long crank. I mean they do use some big block parts (like maybe a water pump if you have one at all, or water in the block for that mater). How many motors can out put 1700 horsepower on pump gas? Ok it is a little pricey at about $124,000 a motor, but when you pop your hood how many more Musi Hemi's do you think there will be at the car show?

Ok we are getting way off topic here.

Big Dave
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-27-2012, 09:32 AM
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I have a 1967 Caprice that has a Mark Jones engine http://www.vortecproperformance.com/. I am very happy with it, I do wish I would have bought another 100hp. I got the mild 517hp version. He has a variety of packages to fit your needs. It pushes my car really well. I did have a very hard time cooling it,no fault of him. I finally got a real 1-1/4" tubes Griffin radiator. I can now keep it at 180 degree here in muggy TN. Good luck
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 12:03 PM
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bajones238 View Post
Thanks Big Dave. That 502 sounds pretty good.
Umm, a 502 on a M20?
I just finished my swap for a 383 with bbl clutch, will fire up next saturday. The M20 got a revision, but I am scared whether it will hold the 460 lbft, parts are so tiny in there...
rgrds
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 12:54 PM
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The Muncie four speed should hold up just fine behind a 383.

The Muncie was replaced by the Borg-Warner Super T-10 starting in 1973 and was complete by '74 in all production cars due to the power of a 454 and the abuse a teenager would put it through. If you should ever break a Muncie they make stronger cases for it as well as a cast iron mid plate to hold all of the parts in alignment. It isn't the size (width) of the gears that causes the failure, but the soft aluminum case deflecting under the load.

The Borg-Warner Super T-10 was chosen to replace the Muncie because of it's higher torque load rating. The B-W aluminum case has compound curves (the Muncie case is a curved bottomed flat side case by comparison). The compound curves stiffen it up as does the extra internal and external webbing. The other reason of course was if it broke GM just slapped in a new one and billed B-W rather than paying UAW union employees to cast and machine their own parts at the Muncie Indiana power train plant.

The reason the B-W T-56, and the TKO series of transmissions is so popular today is because of the increased strength and the fact that they are overdrive transmissions that extend engine life through reduced wear and save on expensive premium gas burnt in cars so equipped.

Big Dave
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 01:22 PM
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
The Muncie four speed should hold up just fine behind a 383.

The Muncie was replaced by the Borg-Warner Super T-10 starting in 1973 and was complete by '74 in all production cars due to the power of a 454 and the abuse a teenager would put it through. If you should ever break a Muncie they make stronger cases for it as well as a cast iron mid plate to hold all of the parts in alignment.

Big Dave
Thanks Big Dave, you just saved my weekend
no abuse foreseen, just occasional FOT in 3rd/4th on Autobahn.
If I only knew about this iron mid plate before the revision...
rgds
Konrad
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2013, 12:13 PM
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The frame mounts on for BBC are taller than the sbc in 65-70 Impalas. Setting the BBC on the sbc frame mounts will work, but there may be oil pan to crossmember contact. Classic Industries sells motor mount shims for the block side. Not sure if anyone makes frame mounts for 65-70.
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