Missing vin tag? - Impala Tech
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 05:57 AM Thread Starter
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Missing vin tag?

I got a 63 titled and bill of sale, I traveled to another state to get it I checked the cowl tag and was seeing the numbers. Never thought to check the door for the vin. Upon getting the car to me it was painted etc probably 12 years ago the vin tag was taken out.. The state I live in Illinois does not check the vin in the door you just bring in the title and get a plate. He had the car for 2 years it looks like and before that was in ohio.. I know I messed up buying a car with no vin tag.. What now? I'm sure the car not to be stolen without a vin tag though makes the car illegal I don't know?? I mean people rebuild these all the time.. It's a 63 impala by the way anyone been through this.. I'm so upset!!
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 12:29 PM
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I can not advise on Illinois policies. In Florida the car would be crushed if discovered without a VIN on a public road unless on top of a trailer. In Florida you can apply for a duplicate title easily enough, but it is a royal pain to get a new VIN tag and "Remanufactured" title that goes along with it.

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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I figured this happen more often as the cars are old and put together after being fixed up a vin tag can fall off 2 rivets hold it in. As for the crusher not going to happen.. What do I do here I bought the car now im not sure what to do? Any advice? Can't be the lone person to have it fall off or buy it with it off car has title etc.. Can I see off the cowl tag if the car has the partial same vin. Im 99 percent sure done by accident
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 02:02 PM
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In 1963 they where not stamping VIN's on the car parts (that just started to happen in 1964 as a result of an anti-auto theft federal law, and wasn't in full implementation until 1967). High value SS models that came with fuel injection or a big block had the partial VIN stamped on the motor and four speed tranny as well as the frame; but base models didn't get that extra labor intensive step (they where all hand stamped).

There is no partial VIN on the trim tag. That number is a control number for Fisher Body and has no connection to your VIN today because Chevrolet threw away all of their records connecting a body number to a car's VIN. There is no way to prove your title matches your car without a VIN plate (which is why they are crushed in Florida because the state government assumes the only reason to remove a VIN plate is to sell a stolen car).

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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
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I respect you been on here for a few years but I payed good money for the car and not to have it crushed. I know the car is not stolen the guy drove it where he was had a title plates there.. Before that the previous owner had the car 20 years had it pretty much restored. I see paint in the rivet holes the paint bit old he drove the car.. My guess is the vin came off during body work.. It's 48 years old held by a pair of rivets they can fall out.. The vin is not coming back stolen has a title why think the car is stolen? No other options but let it sit in my garage? I'm a good honest man I payed money for these i beyond upset right now..
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 03:27 PM
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Mike I have no idea as to what happens in Illinois. I can only address Florida's policy. I would contact your state's DOT and see what your state offers in terms of options. I would also check with the last state that had a license plate on the car and see if it is easier to get a new VIN tag there. If nothing else I would contact your last seller and ask for the VIN plate. (He might have it at home somewhere).

By the way the rivets don't fall off. The dash may rust away around it but the rivets only come off if they are ground off. They are made of stainless steel and last forever.

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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My friend called Indiana as my state did not seem to care. Indiana said that according to them there so called hidden vin numbers all over the car. They would check it and investigate it.. I could title it there I rather not..
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 05:19 PM
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Get a parts car with vin and title and make one car??
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1962impala View Post
My friend called Indiana as my state did not seem to care. Indiana said that according to them there so called hidden vin numbers all over the car. They would check it and investigate it.. I could title it there I rather not..
Hidden VIN's weren't introduced until after the bad guys started to play games with the visible VIN's. Since there are no visible VIN's on his year of car, aside from the VIN tag, you won't find any hidden ones either.

I do not know when hidden VIN's were introduced; but I could ask one of my neighbors. He is an auto theft detective, and has access to books that tell cops where to look for them, by model make and year.

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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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Any advice help sir I mean I don't what to do it's a great car and I feel ripped off to? I should be happy yet I'm down.. The title is clear though at least.. Like I said any advice be great this car is not stolen somebody took off during restore I can tell the holes are painted and the paint 15 years old.. The car legal from Wisc here need a vin check.. Illinois needs no vin check.. I'm really down on myself rookie mistake really feel stupid!!
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 06:59 PM
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This thread over at chevytalk suggests there will be a VIN on the frame. Hard to get at without raising the body off the frame. But I guess that was the idea.

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/sh...hp?tid/199607/

<edit>

By the way, at least on my 64, the VIN tag is not held on by "rivets" as you normally think of them. Not quite sure how that works to tell you the truth. It obviously penetrates the body sheet metal, as you can see rust creeping out from the holes. But the VIN tag itself just seems to have dimples in the surface. Aside from the crud, there is no other part there other than the VIN tag itself. Mine has since been painted but I was careful to tell the body shop not to remove the VIN tag and to just carefully treat the rust behind as was possible. I need to take an 'after' photo





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Last edited by dcairns; 08-13-2011 at 07:37 PM.
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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What about cowl tag would part of that match? I think it's orig engine to??
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 09:38 PM
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As BigDave mentioned earlier, there is no part of the VIN on the cowl tag, just a sequence number.



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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 09:45 PM
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Re-issued vin plate

A few years back I purchased an S10 Blazer. At the time, I ws doing a ton of rebuildable vehicles to make extra money. The Blazer was a theft recovery with minimal body damage, missing wheels, tires, bucket seats and console. I paid 8 grand for the Blazer and invested around 3 grand in repairs. The vehicle was ready for the road with the exception of needing the state inspection done. I dropped it off at the local inspection station that does all of my work. About an hour later the inspection shop calls me and said he can't inspect the truck - there's no vin tag. I thought I was going to throw up - here I am, 11 grand invested, now what.

I live in the state of PA and legally, you cannot drive a vehicle on the road without a vin tag. Everyone told me to get a donor car for the tags an title - I wasn't really comfortable with that, kind of felt shady. Like you, I thought, this has had to happen to someone before. You can't just crush the car, use donor tags, leave it in the garage or just take your chances driving it.

I gathered everything I had for the Blazer; The original sale ad with photo, my bill of sale, all shipping receipts for transporting this vehicle to me, photos of the car, all documentation for the car, etc.. I then went to the messenger service (notary) and applied for a replacement vin tag. In PA, in addition to applying for the replacement vin tag, I was also instructed to flat bed the truck to the PA state police barracks so they could look at the car and run the vin. Under no circumstances should you drive the car there - they WILL impound the car as it shouldn't be on the road without tags.

About 3 or 4 weeks later I received a replacement tag with the original vin number to attach to the car. Unfortunately, the replacement vin tag looks nothing like the original. It was about 3" x 3" and is to be affixed with rivets to the cowl of the car where it is visible. Regardless of looks - it's now legal.

It sucks what you're going through and I hope it works out for you. Good Luck!!
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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I rather not do a tag from another car I know it's legit I just don't want them taking my car apart.. Thanks least I know I'm not the only one I'm really bent up about it..
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 11:08 AM
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Mike, the cowl tag has NO correlation to the VIN number.

I assume the 62's have VIN numbers stamped into the frame, like my 65 does. You will probably have to have your State Patrol re-VIN your car, but they will have to inspect the frame numbers to verify it's not a car made up of two or more cars, or one that has been stolen. There's no way around it.

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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 03:10 PM
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I'm hoping this is the orig frame was restored.. The cowl tag has the plant it was made at?? If they have the same plant I feel better about it.. How on the cowl you tell what plant it was..
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impala1963 View Post
I'm hoping this is the orig frame was restored.. The cowl tag has the plant it was made at?? If they have the same plant I feel better about it.. How on the cowl you tell what plant it was..
I think 63 and 64 tags were much the same. About the center of the picture, you see the word "BODY" just to the right of that is the assembly plant (VN=Van Nuys California). There were some body assembly plants that were not locked to their final assembly plants (where the VIN is assigned) and as such the plant in the Trim Tag and VIN do not match each other. Get your VIN number and find the letter in the middle and then get the letters from the tim tag and report them back here and I can look them up in my book.





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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 04:59 PM
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A little history:

Title 49 of the United States Code, Chapter 301, Motor Vehicle Safety, required NHTSA to issue Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) and Regulations to which manufacturers of motor vehicle and equipment items must conform and certify compliance.

Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 115 required all road-going motor vehicles to have a vehicle identification number (this is the part of the law that says you forfeit your car if it is found without a VIN driving with a tag on a public road, though race cars on trailers are exempt). This requirement was phased in over several years.

Starting on January 1, 1969, all passenger cars manufactured in the United States, or manufactured overseas and subsequently imported into the United States, on or after January 1, 1969, were required to have a VIN. As a practical rule of thumb, this means that every passenger car from model year 1970 to date has been required by the Department of Transportation (DOT) to have a VIN. At first the VIN's characteristics (i.e., its length, the types and kinds of information encoded within particular positions or sections of the VIN, etc.) for passenger cars could be determined by each manufacturer. After January 1st 1980, VIN's were required to use a uniform 17-character format.

Prior to 1969 there were no federal regulations requiring VIN's. All cars made since 1953 forward from GM had a VIN but it was to identify the car for inventory purposes and there was no set standard of what the individual numbers meant to any one out side of the industry. Because it was an inventory control number prior to 1966 they just stamped the VIN on the car where you could find it.

All sates recorded the VIN numbers as a means of licensing and in identifying abandoned cars (and to collect sales tax as well on those states with a sales tax and as a property tax on those states with out a sales tax). Everybody had a different use for the VIN which GM stamped on the car. In 1964 All Canadian made cars had to have a VIN and it had to be stamped on all major components to prevent auto theft (it took five more years for this law to go into effect in the US and GM at that time was only required to keep records for seven years from the start of the fiscal year the car was made). The Canadian government further required GM of Canada and Ford and the other makers to maintain records on their cars in perpetuity (this is why you can buy the complete documentation on any Canadian made cars but not in America).

People get confused between a modern car that is built to a host of government regulations controlling mileage, safety, pollutants, and even to a degree quality (NAFTA which opened up central America as a manufacturing site). Back when your car was new nothing was required other than a PCV valve instead of a road tube unless destined for California which got an air pump). No seat belts nothing else was required and was only included to compete with other companies. So you can not compare a new modern Big Government made car, with a free enterprise get these rules off my back old car.

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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 05:06 PM
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Not sure what you mean Dave?
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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 05:11 PM
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I thought I had to take the body off to find the frame vin?
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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 07:36 PM
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There are places that will repro your VIN tag. A quick google will help you out.

Two doors, four doors, wagons, and ragtops.
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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impala1963 View Post
Not sure what you mean Dave?
It means that VIN's where not required on cars before 1969 by law. They were used for a lot of other purposes but not all cars or all models had a VIN on anything other than a VIN plate from 1953-54 to 1964 when Canada started to require them by law. His 1963 falls in that period of time where the only true VIN was what was stamped on the VIN tag. The factory did stamp 409 and 348 motors, Borg-Warner four speeds, Rochester Fuel Injection units, and the Posi "P" case rear ends, but generally nothing else prior to 1964.

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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 10:11 PM
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Sounds like repro tag is it I guess these cars should be exempt anyway
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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-15-2011, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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No thank you impala 63 I'm going to just let them go through it. My friend said Mick you always do the right thing and I try. The car was owned previous owners 33 years I'm sure it's legit just something off let someone else figure it out.. Back to work on the 62 can't keep a good man down
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