Wrong pump and brackets 1964 409? - Impala Tech
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-27-2012, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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Wrong pump and brackets 1964 409?

Hi Everyone,

I was trying to replace hoses and put a belt on the power steering pump that had none when I bought it. I think I see why it had no belt now. Do I have the wrong pump and or brackets? The adjuster is behind the rear bracket, behing the angled support. I highlighted in white the part the adjuster is behind. There is NO way to get to it that I see while on the car.

AS ALWAYS your help is GREATLY appreciated!!!!






1964 Impala SS Convertible. 409, 4 speed, dual quad
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-27-2012, 11:49 AM
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My guess they are using SBC pulleys on the crank and water pump. The 409 had different brackets and pulleys than were used on the Mark IV big blocks (396-454) and the small block; but all pulleys made by Chevrolet will bolt up to any Chevy engine because GM used the same tooling to punch the holes to bolt them up to save a dime.

Big Dave
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-27-2012, 11:52 AM
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Looks like you have the wrong fan shroud for a 409, that is the small block fan shroud.

The 409 had a shorter fan shroud to accommodate the longer engine.




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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-27-2012, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
My guess they are using SBC pulleys on the crank and water pump. The 409 had different brackets and pulleys than were used on the Mark IV big blocks (396-454) and the small block; but all pulleys made by Chevrolet will bolt up to any Chevy engine because GM used the same tooling to punch the holes to bolt them up to save a dime.

Big Dave
That would at least expalin why the pulleys do not line up with the power steering.....

THANKS for the shorud pic Dave - yes it looks like
I have the wrong one. i will order that now.

There is no way to adjust the belt for the power steering without dissasembly. I am swaping the column our for a tilt unit, maybe I can get to it then.

What have I done- another disaster car?

1964 Impala SS Convertible. 409, 4 speed, dual quad
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-27-2012, 02:12 PM
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You may need to get the fan sorted out as well. It may not be inside the shroud by the time you put on the shorter 409 shroud. If you want to stick with the flex fan, then a longer spacer may be needed. The 409 picture I posted was from an earlier year (61-62) and the fan is a non-clutch 4 blade. I am not a 409 expert, but the '64 shop manual does show the 409 with a 5 blade clutch fan. But I don't know if they did variants with the non-clutch 4 blade in '64. If you are after original looks, then you will want to research that.




Ultimately you want the back end fan blades hanging out of the shroud a bit, while the front of the blades is well inside. This is a small block but shows the proper fan placement in the shroud.






It occurs to me that since it appears that somebody did a 409 upgrade to your car, and missed some stuff, you may still have the small block radiator as well.


The 409 radiator has a sloped top, small block has a level top.





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Last edited by dcairns; 07-27-2012 at 02:34 PM.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-27-2012, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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What do you think of this idea?

I may try to modify the shroud I have then to allow some of the fan blade to show as you indicated. The car was a 409 car, but I am begining to think it was a salvage or at least a total rebuild that did not get finished.

I will have to take a close look at that radiator, It looks new so there may be some info stamped on it somewhere.

I really did not want a major project, but it is looking like I have one...

That is what I get for paying a "professional" to check over the car before I bought it as opposed to me going to look...

On the bright side (if there is one here), at least I am working on something I have always wanted and not some heap I picked up in passing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dcairns View Post
You may need to get the fan sorted out as well. It may not be inside the shroud by the time you put on the shorter 409 shroud. If you want to stick with the flex fan, then a longer spacer may be needed. The 409 picture I posted was from an earlier year (61-62) and the fan is a non-clutch 4 blade. I am not a 409 expert, but the '64 shop manual does show the 409 with a 5 blade clutch fan. But I don't know if they did variants with the non-clutch 4 blade in '64. If you are after original looks, then you will want to research that.




Ultimately you want the back end fan blades hanging out of the shroud a bit, while the front of the blades is well inside. This is a small block but shows the proper fan placement in the shroud.






It occurs to me that since it appears that somebody did a 409 upgrade to your car, and missed some stuff, you may still have the small block radiator as well.


The 409 radiator has a sloped top, small block has a level top.


1964 Impala SS Convertible. 409, 4 speed, dual quad
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragtop_rob View Post
What do you think of this idea?

I may try to modify the shroud I have then to allow some of the fan blade to show as you indicated. The car was a 409 car, but I am begining to think it was a salvage or at least a total rebuild that did not get finished.

I will have to take a close look at that radiator, It looks new so there may be some info stamped on it somewhere.

I really did not want a major project, but it is looking like I have one...

That is what I get for paying a "professional" to check over the car before I bought it as opposed to me going to look...

On the bright side (if there is one here), at least I am working on something I have always wanted and not some heap I picked up in passing.
I think you would be better off just to get the right fan and shroud. It's not that hard to find that stuff for 409 cars.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-30-2012, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05snopro440 View Post
I think you would be better off just to get the right fan and shroud. It's not that hard to find that stuff for 409 cars.
Must have read my mind. I found one, it is on its way.

1964 Impala SS Convertible. 409, 4 speed, dual quad
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